path: root/meeting-logs/20210411.txt

[21:02:20] <dilfridge> !proj council
[21:02:20] <dilfridge> (council@gentoo.org) dilfridge, gyakovlev, mattst88, slyfox, ulm, whissi, williamh
[21:02:20] <dilfridge> meeting time (now for real)!
[21:02:21] <willikins> (council@gentoo.org) dilfridge, gyakovlev, mattst88, slyfox, ulm, whissi, williamh
[21:02:32] <dilfridge> 1) roll call
[21:02:36] -*- gyakovlev here
[21:02:37] -*- Whissi here
[21:02:39] -*- dilfridge here
[21:02:42] -*- ulm here
[21:02:49] -*- slyfox here
[21:02:54] -*- mattst88 here but might have a proxy as well
[21:03:46] <Whissi> Who is your proxy?
[21:03:56] <dilfridge> ok let's wait a moment for WilliamH to pop up
[21:04:06] <mattst88> sam_ and zlogene were fighting over it :)
[21:06:02] <dilfridge> let's go on 
[21:06:04] <dilfridge> 2)
[21:06:13] <dilfridge> Git vs. rsync [1]
[21:06:19] <dilfridge> https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/message/59f9ac24ceb34abed26c990168b75f87
[21:06:26] <dilfridge> is there anything we need to discuss here?
[21:06:49] <ulm> nothing for the council to decide at this time, I would say
[21:06:50] <mattst88> I don't think so, other than maybe asking infra@ to start investigating how we could have a Git mirroring system
[21:07:26] <mattst88> mgorny also has an interesting idea that might not require extra infrastructure, AFAIK
[21:07:48] <mattst88> but yeah, nothing for us to decide :)
[21:07:54] <dilfridge> right-e-o
[21:08:02] <dilfridge> so we can probably drop this fast now
[21:08:06] <antarus> er
[21:08:18] <dilfridge> antarus: you called?
[21:08:18] <antarus> I'm looking for people interested in working on it
[21:08:31] <antarus> if you are relying on 'infra' you are not going to get results
[21:08:37] <slyfox> worth writing an email to -dev?
[21:08:39] <sam_> wasn't slashbeast going to?
[21:08:40] <antarus> (no offense to them)
[21:09:05] <antarus> but this is partyl where I'm expect council to be more leader-y
[21:09:30] <antarus> is this project worth doing, can the council help prioritize drive it? Can we fund it with money?
[21:09:33] <antarus> that sort of thing
[21:09:57] <antarus> if you don't want to lead that way, thats fine, I'm just trying to point out an opportunity of sorts
[21:10:03] <antarus> anyway think about it; I don't expect it to be resolved today
[21:10:16] <mattst88> I'd be happy to have council do a quick vote that just says "we think moving to git by default is worth exploring"
[21:10:33] <dilfridge> so my 2ct: I dont see any urgent need for action, for me rsync works nicely most of the time
[21:10:33] <Whissi> Well, worth exploring if all problems are resolved :)
[21:10:50] <dilfridge> and if it doesnt there's emerge-webrsync
[21:10:52] <ulm> antarus: maybe too early, because discussion in the ML is still going on
[21:10:56] <ulm> but you have a point
[21:11:10] <antarus> I'd also like something like an 'auto-sync' provider
[21:11:11] <mattst88> Whissi: exploring means finding problems.
[21:11:21] <antarus> or building compatible providers
[21:11:39] <antarus> like what if we use web-rsync to bootstrap yoru repo, but it web-rsync'd a git compatible repo?
[21:12:22] <antarus> mattst88: +1, we can't know without trying, designing everything up front is pretty expensive and not very agile
[21:12:38] <Whissi> With this sort of complexity I doubt that anything will move in next 5 years but sure =)
[21:12:38] <mattst88> exactly
[21:13:14] <mattst88> Whissi: how's your test ::gentoo repo doing, btw?
[21:13:27] <Whissi> I won't have access until Tuesday
[21:13:38] <mattst88> did we solve /that/ problem so that you can maybe acknowledge that it's not OMG broken?
[21:14:02] <mgorny> antarus: like using bit bundles?
[21:14:22] <Whissi> The people who wants to switch default to git should maybe also write down a list of arguments and the people who want to stick to rsync should do the same. Then we can compare and work on problems we found that way.
[21:14:57] <mattst88> Whissi: you're way ahead of where antarus and I are
[21:15:17] <Whissi> In the end I guess there should be `emerge ---config portage` where you switch between rsync and git for example so this shouldn't be a big deal in the end.
[21:15:19] <WilliamH> Sorry I missed the meeting folks. :(
[21:15:50] <antarus> Whissi: so my long term plan is to deprecate rsync
[21:16:06] <antarus> so 'people who want to stick to rsync' would need to spin up their own network, potentially
[21:16:18] <antarus> but this is again part of the FLOSS promise, right, that would be possible ;p
[21:17:01] <Whissi> Well, I don't see that happen but write down your arguments why you think this should happen and if we will find no blockers, why not.
[21:17:24] <mattst88> FWIW, I think Whissi is just being overly negative, and we shouldn't take too much time to try to convince him of anything at the moment
[21:17:36] <Whissi> WTF?
[21:17:41] <mattst88> (there's not anything to convince him of at the moment anyway)
[21:18:01] <mattst88> well, you started by saying "Well, worth exploring if all problems are resolved :)"
[21:18:36] <Whissi> Probably a misunderstanding:
[21:19:15] <Whissi> You wanted a vote. But I don't see why we need a vote for improvement. I.e. we can try to improve Gentoo all the time. And if we get a PoC which turns out to be working... we don't need a vote allowing someone to tackle a problem.
[21:19:48] <sam_> well, antarus said he wanted some leadership here
[21:19:55] <antarus> I didn't ask for a vote
[21:19:56] <sam_> i.e. choosing to push for a solution, encourage investigation
[21:20:02] <mattst88> I was only suggesting that Council affirmed that this was a thing we're interested in
[21:20:03] <slyfox> I think we need a project owner anyway who would work on more detailed proposal that would outline requirements in a clearer form.
[21:20:31] <mattst88> yes
[21:20:44] <mgorny> i think the first step forward would be getting a git bundle generator online
[21:20:56] <antarus> provide technical leadership is by actually leading; not by simply voting on stuff other people present ;p
[21:21:10] <mgorny> so people could bootstrap git repo without relying on 'git clone' working
[21:21:21] <sam_> man, I was just agreeing with you, and saying you were asking for leadership
[21:21:30] <sam_> (which is different from "we can try to improve Gentoo all the time")
[21:21:42] <dilfridge> mgorny: is "git clone" still that fragile even for shallow clones?
[21:22:21] <Whissi> So mattst88 will volunteer to lead the task force exploring possibilities to switch Gentoo repository to git sync by default.
[21:22:24] <mgorny> dilfridge: i haven't experience that myself but i consider inability to resume to be a serious limitation
[21:22:32] <dilfridge> that it is
[21:22:49] <ulm> dilfridge: it doesn't remember what it had downloaded previously
[21:22:59] <ulm> which I think qualifies as fragile
[21:23:16] <dilfridge> yeah... not extremely bad for shallow clones, but still quite bad
[21:23:17] <slyfox> sounds like a nice feature request for ustream git :)
[21:23:19] <mgorny> the cheap solution is to generate and cache a bundle on server for some time
[21:23:24] <mgorny> let people fetch it via HTTPS
[21:23:39] <mgorny> then discard it after N minutes with no activity
[21:23:39] <sam_> it's not happening upstream
[21:23:47] <ulm> git is worse than cvs in that respect :)
[21:23:49] <sam_> I2P were interested in it (it's like Tor) which has unreliable streams
[21:23:54] <sam_> they wanted this feature for a long time
[21:23:57] <sam_> they opted for bundles IIRC
[21:24:03] <slyfox> *nod*
[21:24:11] <sam_> (upstream git is only interested if I think someone funds the work)
[21:24:19] <sam_> good question though, I just meant I had some interesting info :)
[21:24:23] <mgorny> i'm not surprised, tbh
[21:24:30] <mgorny> it's probably a lot of work to get it right
[21:24:40] <sam_> yeah, definitely, and I guess they view it as already handled
[21:25:32] <mgorny> if i find some time, i'll try extending sync mirror with metamanifests on a separate branch
[21:25:45] <mattst88> dilfridge: next topic?
[21:25:48] <mgorny> so it would be more useful without actual git backend
[21:25:54] <dilfridge> next topic
[21:26:02] <dilfridge> 3) open bugs
[21:26:26] <dilfridge> bug 736760
[21:26:27] <willikins> dilfridge: https://bugs.gentoo.org/736760 "Application to Software Freedom Conservancy"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; CONF; mgorny:trustees
[21:26:32] <dilfridge> anything to discuss here?
[21:26:43] <sam_> WilliamH: you only missed the start, it's ongoing
[21:27:03] <ulm> I guess he has figured that :)
[21:27:10] <WilliamH> Yeah I figured that. :-)
[21:27:13] <dilfridge> I hope he figured that.
[21:27:17] <sam_> he hasn't said anything since, so I wasn't sure
[21:27:20] <dilfridge> seems not
[21:27:27] <antarus> I'm not sure why this bug in particular is assigned to council
[21:27:31] <dilfridge> bug 729062
[21:27:32] <willikins> dilfridge: https://bugs.gentoo.org/729062 "Services and Software which is critical for Gentoo should be developed/run in the Gentoo namespace"; Gentoo Council, unspecified; IN_P; jstein:council
[21:27:41] <dilfridge> Whissi: isn't that your baby?
[21:27:42] <antarus> The Foundation met with some other umbrella's recently
[21:27:47] <Whissi> I swear that the past meeting wasn't 4 weeks ago :p  Anyway, we have scheduled a meeting after today's council meeting and will probably finalize and send our mail Mo/Tue.
[21:27:51] <antarus> but we have not made significant progress in any direction
[21:28:13] <dilfridge> ok let's skip the next one, then we get to
[21:28:21] <dilfridge> bug 774489
[21:28:22] <willikins> dilfridge: https://bugs.gentoo.org/774489 "GLEP 67: add proxied-maint="" attribute"; Documentation, GLEP Changes; CONF; mgorny:glep
[21:28:31] <dilfridge> isn't that already done?
[21:28:50] <mgorny> yes, it is
[21:28:51] <dilfridge> ok I'll close it later on
[21:28:52] <ulm> needs to be labelled "final"
[21:29:00] <WilliamH> Yes, I believe that's already done.
[21:29:05] <dilfridge> bug 779451
[21:29:06] <willikins> dilfridge: https://bugs.gentoo.org/779451 "Request to add Gentoo developer business card to Gentoo Artwork"; Gentoo Foundation, Artwork approval; UNCO; alicef:artwork
[21:29:08] <dilfridge> that's also done
[21:29:24] <ulm> oh, glep 67 is final already. so no action
[21:29:36] <dilfridge> ok then we get to
[21:29:39] <dilfridge> 4) open floor
[21:29:42] <dilfridge> anyone? antarus?
[21:29:56] <antarus> hey don't pick on me ! ;p
[21:29:58] <antarus> I said my piece already
[21:30:37] <ulm> dilfridge: bug 751010?
[21:30:38] <willikins> https://bugs.gentoo.org/751010 "Missing log and summaries for 20191110, 20191208, and 20200412 council meetings"; Gentoo Council, unspecified; CONF; ulm:council
[21:30:38] <WilliamH> I didn't say a lot about switching to git syncing by default because I  tend to agree that we can't until we can support it.
[21:30:45] <dilfridge> yeah...
[21:30:59] <ulm> just that it's in the log :p
[21:31:27] <dilfridge> ok
[21:31:30] <dilfridge> that's it then
[21:31:32] <dilfridge> cheerios
[21:31:37] -*- dilfridge bangs the gavel
[21:31:40] <dilfridge> meeting closed