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diff --git a/meeting-logs/20240414-summary.txt b/meeting-logs/20240414-summary.txt index b2182ef..0fb6a72 100644 --- a/meeting-logs/20240414-summary.txt +++ b/meeting-logs/20240414-summary.txt @@ -14,7 +14,7 @@ Agenda Roll call ========= -Present: arthurzam (proxy for mattst88), ajak, ulm, sam, soap, mgorny +Present: arthurzam (proxy for mattst88), ajak, sam, soap, mgorny, ulm Absent: dilfridge diff --git a/meeting-logs/20240414-summary.txt.asc b/meeting-logs/20240414-summary.txt.asc index bdada40..18e9c99 100644 --- a/meeting-logs/20240414-summary.txt.asc +++ b/meeting-logs/20240414-summary.txt.asc @@ -1,9 +1,9 @@ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- -iNUEABYKAH0WIQQlpruI3Zt2TGtVQcJzhAn1IN+RkAUCZr0GNV8UgAAAAAAuAChp +iNUEABYKAH0WIQQlpruI3Zt2TGtVQcJzhAn1IN+RkAUCZr0HPV8UgAAAAAAuAChp c3N1ZXItZnByQG5vdGF0aW9ucy5vcGVucGdwLmZpZnRoaG9yc2VtYW4ubmV0MjVB NkJCODhERDlCNzY0QzZCNTU0MUMyNzM4NDA5RjUyMERGOTE5MAAKCRBzhAn1IN+R -kDsxAQDg0S6tpxVU9C4yBBSdkm6owCz5mgST0IClgb28OCBz7gD/WFaYHqE32zhX -qDa5AwpBInZoDMzjLbrUv3hs6MJIeQc= -=brzm +kGalAP40LWfmpGU9CMJMi0jEibvCa0QwpaYnqn7WF9tfXwar2AEArrtZmcPTMJR9 +KVcUVzu4R7V9MzU4wcPJDD9HqVdIXgs= +=aOG4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- diff --git a/meeting-logs/20240721-summary.txt b/meeting-logs/20240721-summary.txt index 1b5dcef..91be076 100644 --- a/meeting-logs/20240721-summary.txt +++ b/meeting-logs/20240721-summary.txt @@ -91,7 +91,7 @@ dilfridge and sam to handle it. s390: deprecate 31 bit profiles -------------------------------- -The Council members unanimously agreed on deprecating sparc's 31 bit profiles, +The Council members unanimously agreed on deprecating s390's 31 bit profiles, for 6 month period after post of news-item. arthurzam will collaborate with dilfridge and sam to handle it. diff --git a/meeting-logs/20240721-summary.txt.asc b/meeting-logs/20240721-summary.txt.asc index e497ab1..29c90c2 100644 --- a/meeting-logs/20240721-summary.txt.asc +++ b/meeting-logs/20240721-summary.txt.asc @@ -1,11 +1,11 @@ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- -iQEzBAABCgAdFiEE/axFlFuH2ptjtO5EAqCvUD0SBQQFAmailL0ACgkQAqCvUD0S -BQScxAf+LBtiCqNjw88Q+mDy2FAVUEFEAJ3RCkjGCdjlMPOkxaC4rWkrZEB83ntn -x1xavd1VZzkX2mtcRBF6sxLOXfGM0x0VQDE5y3fUgTE96LvGVYSYavX9VTIBCdu8 -h2hfy9wBHZ2nC4XZTF5XRfNAmZ19xn6HHXHAIcDJMGPNA1qzAcnuHkgrRL/FYKmY -OltK9vigRAfHXXxxqIv0gtqZBq9oi2pNKO1QtPktZ513uEZOiOaIkXS0tFNqnX8V -ZTHUUr09A8s3gyrnh8XJrPSATrKJYT3WWJ7Yt8ZsH4Q6WNvTvB0AKGXGOTrLJaFl -I21lKbVSY2smwcOjk6/ZR/QhhmoguQ== -=FpDC +iQFJBAABCgAzFiEE/axFlFuH2ptjtO5EAqCvUD0SBQQFAmbkFSEVHGFydGh1cnph +bUBnZW50b28ub3JnAAoJEAKgr1A9EgUEr/sH/2spzNX/eE3gsxGyUyG4GgicQSUL +ziIw9BodL1R5o+kaXaZiEjHCeTUYHtA7+LbHf1VR3tE6oZQUYKli6Utwu7CgFnY6 +dSI46JmtXev6pR/rMA9GDeDJ0LtbD54LTdd4z/9LFuUyM4miAzxxena8YR5fl7jh +uFMC7pn8Gw1isu9w3ixJQTQPsH//+Mhx7qC+WyYLm0V5VnCRioQNIr30ey2/kz7y +vuNCCmh5mIAGsmBI/6t4nsZE1Kl3cEzd/ibwGkEnD/LhRvUAF91W9KFwSaxr2XoU +xiF3arkYu9BXKqxdaDbYGVYbKGU4o6eHQd7vlkS2QAS9hhd/FQ1QcmaOwhA= +=ai5A -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- diff --git a/meeting-logs/20240811-summary.txt b/meeting-logs/20240811-summary.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000..bf1c439 --- /dev/null +++ b/meeting-logs/20240811-summary.txt @@ -0,0 +1,70 @@ +Summary of Gentoo Council meeting 2024-08-11 + +Agenda [1] +========== + +1. Roll call +2. Open bugs with Council participation [1] +3. Open floor + + +Roll call +========= + +Present: Arsen (proxy for ulm), arthurzam, dilfridge, mgorny, robbat2, sam, soap +Absent: - + + +Foundation Discussion +===================== + +The foundation wasn't discussed since an AGM is upcoming with no new updates. + + +Open bugs with council involvement +================================== + +Bug 936517 - Social Contract update +----------------------------------- + +Marked as resolved. + + +Bug 936914 - ARM64 server replacement +------------------------------------- + +Acquiring a replacement for our current jiji.arm.dev.gentoo.org host. We have +not heard back from WorksOnArm. Other options such as Gigabyte, SuperMicro or +Nvidia's Grace are considered impractical for our purposes. Sam will reach out +to ARM contacts. + + +Bug 801499 - Nitrokey 3 upgrade +------------------------------- + +Nitrokey 3's quality is considered unacceptable. Soap will contact Yubico for +sponsorship or price quotes, while Robbat2 will ask on SPI lists about similar +initiatives. + + +Bug 925014 - PR services redundancy +----------------------------------- + +A shared Mastodon account was created, and no further action was required. + + +Open floor +========== + +arthurzam updated the council on a number of arches: + +- alpha/23.0 is a stable profile now. +- ppc64-32bit userland profiles are gone, arthurzam will do more ppc64 cleanups. +- ia64 is deprecated and will be removed on 2024-09-07. + +MIPS was discussed more, and splitting into distinct variants was brought up +but no action was taken. + + +------------------------------------------------------------------------------- +[1] https://marc.info/?l=gentoo-project&m=172336871401229&w=2 diff --git a/meeting-logs/20240811-summary.txt.asc b/meeting-logs/20240811-summary.txt.asc new file mode 100644 index 0000000..73181c6 --- /dev/null +++ b/meeting-logs/20240811-summary.txt.asc @@ -0,0 +1,19 @@ +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- +Version: GnuPG v2 + +iQKTBAABCgB9FiEEuNUxXaAAcsCoYIifzjbhFyAuOEIFAmbUqmxfFIAAAAAALgAo +aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldEI4 +RDUzMTVEQTAwMDcyQzBBODYwODg5RkNFMzZFMTE3MjAyRTM4NDIACgkQzjbhFyAu +OEJEOhAA5dXwsIYvl8T6Zx8eCU272SZ5f9eQI8Ev2t9IjjnIvk3CvireX5MgtJ5D +lucKk7KZpAFbewfbEdT6KgvN6HDHsI0oIoHIhU05Kd53nIhR5VZf3XTXAgK9JAZf +zJTfyvE+CqpjvIX/3ai1KfJ17fXpS4rmqhEbXCO93xYkFuYQdN2aqovZO/nSN3r6 +EWAOPO+/upSKa2UUlUGnOZXi3bcpYcGOeUfs0dYxR9Mc9zVWFsW90z3GS+P6QzU6 +RgqByNlW0L31sptWq1kk/u3fSah5FPLYHg99IFglcaE/v5Iw8XqKL83FPEVGz9Cj +YKaUSwJENQ3kyD7YTxqgjK6bLIcPNoCposEFC24fULNXmEmMDtrMeiDUu3xh7Csq +IvCxF/ID3MPj7f7G4y1uUdwTK4riFI2fzbQDw6TapesBNJq6j0zTt4dq9jhjU7aM +xVGx2co5VmjdOhx/dB/Q6UsCeg/d+r2mljBvfCFelz36bpd1imQaOWA6Cs3YPz81 +K8H6ni4sHHmybE6Pxr6pij83lD/PqN7vGU0O2PydBXBBZZXtYdyEDSH7riAd4Wvj +BX72kYl1NNwgVYNyrQt2IXKoWSheAA0y4L3OcKcS9JmkJ4osw+jcZVjaLJTD1/vQ +d0ZrgRHS2e262qno4nYPRx93gf0arWeZVsJH/+IBQA6uiuWvWjo= +=6tsD +-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- diff --git a/meeting-logs/20240811.txt b/meeting-logs/20240811.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000..ea3ed13 --- /dev/null +++ b/meeting-logs/20240811.txt @@ -0,0 +1,240 @@ +[18:59:58] <@soap> https://marc.info/?l=gentoo-project&m=172336871401229&w=2 +[19:00:16] <@arthurzam> dilfridge: soap: https://public-inbox.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/d2779e497df653744135f11f9ad5e4dd4d0f977c.camel@gentoo.org/T/#u +[19:00:46] <@dilfridge> looks exciting +[19:00:53] <@soap> ok, roll call +[19:00:57] <@robbat2> present +[19:01:01] -*- dilfridge present +[19:01:03] -*- mgorny here +[19:01:04] -*- arthurzam here +[19:01:06] -*- soap here +[19:01:07] -*- Arsen here (proxy for ulm) +[19:01:09] -*- sam_ here +[19:01:25] <@soap> ok, full council +[19:01:32] <@dilfridge> full house +[19:01:59] <@soap> 1.1 I've decided against discussing the foundation, since we'll have an AGM soon and there aren't any news on that front +[19:02:16] <@soap> 2. Open bugs with Council participation +[19:03:02] <@soap> bug 936517 should be done, I'll close it after the meeting +[19:03:03] <willikins> soap: https://bugs.gentoo.org/936517 "Social Contract update"; Gentoo Foundation, Licenses; IN_P; ulm:trustees +[19:03:09] <@dilfridge> \o/ +[19:03:30] <@soap> bug 936914 should be fine too +[19:03:31] <willikins> soap: https://bugs.gentoo.org/936914 "arm64: Short-term replacement for jiji.arm.dev.gentoo.org"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; CONF; robbat2:trustees +[19:03:42] <@robbat2> i have some questions there +[19:03:53] <@robbat2> did we hear back from WorksOnArm, or any other big users? +[19:04:06] <@dilfridge> I didnt hear anything +[19:04:16] <@sam_> just to say: I haven't heard back from my WOA replies, I have a feeling they didn't quite realise our needs couldn't be met by cloud, but I don't know if we will hear back +[19:04:33] <@sam_> I can try reach out to 2 people I know at arm who have been very appreciative of our help with gcc +[19:04:38] <@sam_> I have not heard from other users +[19:04:46] <@robbat2> neither Gigabyte nor SuperMicro are selling anything newer than 18 months old publicly +[19:04:54] <@dilfridge> no response from the glibc people +[19:05:17] <@sam_> I was waiting on asking the arm people I knew of until we gave the glibc people a chance, in case they're all on the same team +[19:05:18] <@robbat2> lots of hype about new products coming, but nowhere to get them, or even access +[19:05:30] <@dilfridge> robbat2: the only thing that is sold publicly is the nvidia grace superchip, and that is beyond our needs and means +[19:05:35] <@soap> the story of ARM... +[19:05:40] <@sam_> yep +[19:05:50] <@sam_> so if people think I should, I can reach out to the 2 arm folk +[19:05:53] <@sam_> I don't konw if it'll go anywhere +[19:05:57] <@sam_> or I can ask in person in a month +[19:06:07] <@robbat2> you can order a Grace, but seems nobody is actually shipping it +[19:06:14] <@dilfridge> (based on 2x neoverse v2, typical server from 50k€ upwards) +[19:06:24] <@soap> we have a Grace at work, but they're finicky +[19:06:36] <@ajak> wrt contingencies: i have my arm server that i'd be happy to give to gentoo, but need somewhere to put it +[19:06:41] <@sam_> we also don't need the gpu part at all for our purposes +[19:06:46] <@ajak> soap: and loud! +[19:06:56] <@ajak> (which may or may not be a genuine concern) +[19:07:00] <@dilfridge> sam_: grace is without gpu, grace hopper is with (fun) +[19:07:09] <@sam_> ah +[19:07:13] <@robbat2> i've asked OSL about the state of our racks; there isn't enough power right now; maybe if something got cleared out +[19:07:17] <@robbat2> but that's a next month discussion now +[19:07:21] -*- ajak nods +[19:07:26] <@mgorny> btw no chance worksonarm would give us the hw if they're decommissioning it anyway? +[19:07:30] <@dilfridge> sounds reasonable +[19:07:30] <@sam_> ok, so quickly: should I email the 2 people now, or just ask in person next month? +[19:07:31] <@robbat2> ajak: where physically is your node located? +[19:07:38] <ajak> bay area +[19:08:02] <@sam_> mgorny: they've not replied to my other emails yet so.. +[19:08:06] <@robbat2> mgorny: I did suggest WOA should be asked that question +[19:08:09] <@arthurzam> sam_: what are the risks of contacting them? +[19:08:27] <@sam_> arthurzam: just that maybe it'd be more successful if I ask IRL, dunno, but I get on with them well anyway +[19:08:34] <@sam_> maybe slight awkwardness if they say no? :D +[19:08:54] <+Arsen> I doubt there are any really.. but minimizing "bother" is nice +[19:09:02] <@arthurzam> ok, I see +[19:09:17] <@sam_> maybe some small increased chance of success if arsen and I are both there with the begging bowl +[19:09:18] <@sam_> no idea +[19:09:22] <+Arsen> (assuming these are the same ARM people I'm thinking of; sam?) +[19:09:25] <@sam_> yes +[19:09:28] <+Arsen> figures +[19:09:47] <@sam_> ok I'll play it by ear, I'll definitely ask, not sure when +[19:09:56] <@sam_> I'll ask in person if I haven't by then +[19:10:26] <@robbat2> thanks +[19:10:39] <@dilfridge> for the moment susuwatari (the new hetzner machine) is fully functional (thanks robbat2 and whoever else helped) +[19:11:01] <@arthurzam> dilfridge: can I start the tattoo on it? +[19:11:11] <@dilfridge> as far as I'm concerned, sure +[19:11:21] <@robbat2> i thought tattoo was already running :-) +[19:11:24] <@dilfridge> catalyst jobs and binhost builders are already running +[19:13:57] <@robbat2> anything else to discuss on the arm64 box topic? +[19:14:05] <@sam_> nothing from me +[19:14:09] <@dilfridge> nope +[19:14:13] <@arthurzam> none +[19:14:23] <@soap> ok, lets proceed +[19:14:28] <@soap> bug 801499 +[19:14:28] <willikins> soap: https://bugs.gentoo.org/801499 "Approach Nitrokey for Nitrokey 3 upgrade"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; CONF; sam:trustees +[19:14:37] <@dilfridge> nope +[19:15:04] <@robbat2> what is our overall plan here? (one sec, writing a longer message) +[19:15:08] <+Arsen> AFAIK yubikey was proposed as an alternative - ulm said that he does not oppose, so maybe that's a direction to inquire +[19:15:09] <@soap> so yes, NK3s seem to be a real problem +[19:15:11] <@sam_> I think that bug needs an update (ulm had mentioned we'd "voted against") +[19:15:22] <@sam_> I'll let soap summarise but I have serious concerns +[19:15:41] <@soap> the final nail in the coffin is that it turns out the secret enclave is actually proprietary? +[19:15:54] <@dilfridge> yes +[19:15:54] <@soap> never mind the terrible UX and cheap built quality +[19:15:59] <@robbat2> somebody was going to ask yubikey, for sponsorship/price quotes; if that works, go with that; otherwise go to NO keys? +[19:16:06] <@soap> yes +[19:16:15] <@soap> I was going to ask, but RL +[19:16:25] <@soap> I'm on PTO next week, so have time to contact them +[19:16:40] <@robbat2> so we're accepting we have to take proprietary to get the functionality; and which point it's a price / UX / quality discussion +[19:17:02] <@soap> "proprietary", why has noone engaged with sam's argument yet +[19:17:33] <@sam_> the RYU part applies heavily here; you don't _want_ to be able to update security key hardware, and nor can you if the security key is any good +[19:17:45] <@sam_> not only that, it's unclear to me that yubikey is even non-compliant with RYU +[19:17:51] <@sam_> it's marketing nonsense +[19:17:58] <@robbat2> can you expand RYU for the logs please? +[19:18:00] <@soap> if there's a serious vuln, yubico has demonstrated that they will replace all affected hardware +[19:18:15] <@soap> (ROCA) +[19:18:17] <@sam_> RYU = Free Software Foundation (FSF)'s "Respect Your Freedom" certification +[19:18:25] <@sam_> it has rules regarding firmware which can, and cannot, be updated +[19:18:35] <@dilfridge> [then you can extract your key using the serious vuln and upload it to the new hardware :o)] +[19:18:41] <+Arsen> heh +[19:19:07] <@sam_> all that to say, I just don't agree with the characterisation of proprietary vs not, as it's misleading +[19:19:28] <@sam_> i don't consider this any sort of violation, breach, or disrespect of the social contract +[19:19:29] <@dilfridge> it's kinda silly anyway, since I'm fairly sure our ganeti machines dont run coreboot +[19:19:33] <@sam_> that too +[19:19:34] <+Arsen> IMO there's value in the open-ness but it's academic if the product is significantly worse +[19:19:35] <@soap> especially with that secret enclave BS +[19:19:56] <@sam_> if the products are ~equal but one is more open, I'd definitely prefer the more open one +[19:20:07] <@sam_> or even if it's just a small trade-off +[19:20:16] <@sam_> for the logs, wrt secret enclave: https://docs.nitrokey.com/nitrokey3/features +[19:20:29] <@sam_> the FIDO2, Password Safe, and Admin Apps are _not_ in the secure element because of this +[19:20:56] <@sam_> if nitrokey come out with a NK4 or similar where they fix the various problems, I'm all for it +[19:21:09] <@robbat2> that's going to be at least 2 years ago +[19:21:10] <@robbat2> *away +[19:21:14] <@soap> si +[19:21:24] <@sam_> aye, I jus mean I don't take us using yubikey now (if we do) as a permanent agreement or anything +[19:21:30] <@dilfridge> the announcement, the hardware more like 6 years +[19:21:31] <@robbat2> in which period, we have yubikey || NK2 +[19:21:33] <@sam_> i'll happily support nitrokey if they come out with something good +[19:21:47] <@soap> dilfridge: with a cheesy python-only package for managing it +[19:22:26] <@mgorny> they should rewrite it in rust +[19:22:27] -*- mgorny hides +[19:22:30] <+Arsen> they did +[19:22:33] <@soap> mgorny: they did +[19:22:34] <@soap> haha +[19:22:34] <@robbat2> ok, let's continue with asking Yubico; in parallel, are any other SPI projects also doing similar work we can join? +[19:22:38] <@dilfridge> /o\ +[19:22:39] <+Arsen> https://www.nitrokey.com/news/2021/new-nitrokey-3-nfc-usb-c-rust-common-criteria-eal-6 +[19:22:45] <@sam_> good question ... +[19:22:54] <@sam_> so, I know that Alpine DOES NOT use security keys AFAIK +[19:23:04] <@soap> what a surprise +[19:23:44] <@robbat2> Arch does +[19:23:48] <@robbat2> https://www.nitrokey.com/news/2021/nitrokey-equips-arch-linux-developers-usb-keys +[19:23:53] <@soap> doesnt debian too? +[19:24:05] <@sam_> I don't know many people at Arch to ask about this +[19:24:13] <@sam_> I know one person who I could maybe ask +[19:24:15] <+Arsen> maybe eli does? +[19:24:21] <@dilfridge> let's ask eli :D +[19:24:30] <@robbat2> let's ask on the SPI discussion lists +[19:24:34] <@sam_> good idea +[19:24:38] <+Arsen> yes that seems easier +[19:24:42] <@sam_> ztrawhcse: ^ fyi +[19:25:04] <@robbat2> so action items here? soap was going to contact yubico; and ?? will ask on spi lists +[19:25:06] <@soap> robbat2: can you ask? +[19:25:13] <@robbat2> yes, I can take the spi lists +[19:25:26] <@dilfridge> robbat2 is gonna be our action figure +[19:26:36] <@soap> ok, last bug +[19:26:49] <@soap> bug 925014 +[19:26:49] <willikins> soap: https://bugs.gentoo.org/925014 "PR services lacking developer redundancy"; Community Relations, User Relations; CONF; ajak:pr +[19:27:02] <@soap> not sure what's left here to do? +[19:27:17] <@arthurzam> A shared account was just created for matstodon +[19:27:27] <@dilfridge> this is like arch status, we should probably just make it into a regular agenda item +[19:27:36] <+Arsen> lol +[19:27:37] <@soap> or that, yes +[19:27:42] <+ztrawhcse> sam_: I never got one via that program. I do remember from the discussion period that it was decided to seek Nitrokey sponsorship, not yubikey sponsorship, because nitrokey was "open source, open hardware" +[19:27:48] <@sam_> bug 937585 +[19:27:49] <willikins> sam_: https://bugs.gentoo.org/937585 "New alias to enable maintaining mastodon with more than one developer"; Gentoo Infrastructure, Other; RESO, FIXE; jstein:infra-bugs +[19:28:06] <@soap> ztrawhcse: open hardware, except the most important part :D +[19:28:20] <@robbat2> ztrawhcse: the nitrokey2 are still available in the program +[19:28:23] <@sam_> wrt PR: I think nothing for us to do really, the bug being done is good +[19:28:24] <+ztrawhcse> well, funny how these things turn out in the end is all I can say +[19:28:36] <@soap> ok great +[19:28:46] <@soap> let's move to the final point +[19:28:54] <@soap> 3. Open floor +[19:29:10] <@arthurzam> So some news: +[19:29:23] <@arthurzam> (1) as of some hours ago, alpha is now not exp arch! +[19:29:29] <@sam_> finally! +[19:29:34] <@dilfridge> \o/ +[19:29:38] <+Arsen> grats! +[19:29:38] <@sam_> that's great news, exp is really a death spiral +[19:29:38] <@dilfridge> great +[19:29:52] <@arthurzam> (2) I've yanked the weird ppc64-32bit useland profiles, soon will start cleanup of ppc64 profiles +[19:29:53] <@soap> arthurzam: lets do the same with mips! +[19:29:53] <@dilfridge> next step mips :) +[19:29:55] -*- soap ducks +[19:30:00] <+Arsen> lol +[19:30:02] <@soap> dilfridge: jinx! +[19:30:16] <@soap> tbh, I think arthur has a point, and we should split up mips +[19:30:18] <@arthurzam> (3) ia64 is deprecated, until 2024-09-07 when we will remove it +[19:30:31] <@sam_> these mono keywords are appalling +[19:30:36] <@sam_> bitness, endianness +[19:30:37] <@dilfridge> soap: split it up into what? mips and mips64 ? +[19:30:53] <@dilfridge> mips mipsel mips64 mips64el +[19:31:09] <@sam_> no 'el' please, we're not debian +[19:31:14] <@sam_> 'le' and 'be' +[19:31:22] <@dilfridge> that is, unfortunately, the CHOST +[19:31:27] <@soap> dilfridge: yes +[19:32:01] <@soap> we can probably keep the ABIs nested in there, but otherwise, mipsbe vs mips64le are totally different beasts +[19:32:01] <@arthurzam> dilfridge: could you create a blog item for removal of ia64? +[19:32:07] <@dilfridge> yes +[19:32:10] <+Arsen> sam_: mipsNNl and mipsNNb avoid that also ;P +[19:32:11] <@dilfridge> no problem +[19:32:35] <@arthurzam> dilfridge: and also for alpha not exp - I think it would make funny case for Gentoo that we support that thingy +[19:33:13] <@arthurzam> Thats all the news from me for now +[19:33:14] <@robbat2> what's the state of guppy.ia64? as of 2022/04 it was racked&powered still at OSL +[19:33:19] <@dilfridge> lets split that up and post it in different months +[19:33:35] <@dilfridge> robbat2: hangs +[19:33:37] <@sam_> robbat2: it's unstable (kernel) so i have to keep rebooting it, as far as I'm concerned, let's take a backup and uplug it +[19:33:40] <@arthurzam> dilfridge: Aug for alpha, Sep for ia64 +[19:33:40] <@sam_> *un +[19:33:46] <@soap> robbat2: didnt you see we need to make space/power at OSL? +[19:33:52] <@arthurzam> lol +[19:33:57] <@soap> say* +[19:33:57] <@robbat2> exactly why I'm asking ;-) +[19:34:05] <@arthurzam> I suspect ia64 is quite power hungry +[19:34:17] <@dilfridge> arthurzam: other way around, because ia64 is an action item while alpha is non-urgent good news +[19:34:28] <@arthurzam> dilfridge: ok +[19:35:11] <@dilfridge> about splitting arches +[19:35:30] <@dilfridge> we should come up with a plan and go with a relatively simple case first +[19:35:45] <@soap> dilfridge: I'd say do it along BE/LE then +[19:35:49] <@dilfridge> like riscv, where riscv32 so far barely exists +[19:35:56] <@sam_> I'll just note that in the past, we've done ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="k ~k" in profiles, maybe we can do basically the same thing +[19:36:17] <@dilfridge> once we have the problems sorted out and a valid procedure, we can do more +[19:36:28] <@dilfridge> sam_: yes that might work +[19:36:40] <@sam_> (not saying it's purely as simple as that, just noting it's an option) +[19:36:43] <@arthurzam> Also remember the userbase for the arches we want to split is quite small and knowladgable, so they can survive if we "break the seemless transition" +[19:36:44] <@dilfridge> I'll start a wiki page based on my -dev mail, then we can collect ideas +[19:36:47] <@sam_> thanks +[19:37:44] <@soap> ok, that should be it then for today? +[19:37:51] <+Arsen> seems so +[19:37:51] <@arthurzam> I think so? +[19:37:54] <@sam_> nothing more from me +[19:38:00] -*- ulm here :) +[19:38:08] <@dilfridge> nothing else that explodes when split? +[19:38:10] <@robbat2> nothing from me +[19:38:15] <+Arsen> ah, welcome back :-) +[19:38:18] -*- soap closes the meeting +[19:38:22] <@sam_> thank you! +[19:38:24] <+Arsen> just in time +[19:38:25] <+Arsen> thank you! +[19:38:27] <@soap> thanks everyone +[19:38:28] <@ulm> Arsen: thanks for proxying +[19:38:30] <+Arsen> np +[19:38:34] <@dilfridge> \o/ thanks :) +[19:38:42] <@arthurzam> Thank you all +[19:39:28] <@mgorny> thx diff --git a/meeting-logs/20240811.txt.asc b/meeting-logs/20240811.txt.asc new file mode 100644 index 0000000..f44d16d --- /dev/null +++ b/meeting-logs/20240811.txt.asc @@ -0,0 +1,19 @@ +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- +Version: GnuPG v2 + +iQKTBAABCgB9FiEEuNUxXaAAcsCoYIifzjbhFyAuOEIFAmbUqmhfFIAAAAAALgAo +aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldEI4 +RDUzMTVEQTAwMDcyQzBBODYwODg5RkNFMzZFMTE3MjAyRTM4NDIACgkQzjbhFyAu +OEIi7A//Ze+kggEip+wrd58k9l4pmjag7IJbKIEnoa/K7jwaQeg0PHpEJ7NYQast +2DO5va/fuhMldZduIoHLRU6ItMXGPTaTuhsE8Pi2zEZk5rLpRMV9zlD5MJtN9ZMR +YfHQuVO1oxQMDLaur+C6djDjVBl+VqYJjzm885TIMZvPdshQ/lwoDPRDYP2PPswH +YLMrfSMvCRsIgdoQJX0i1c71hafS+z/+ZJLa6uEMdhcBB4P8Kg2iUlR0IcmUE5j0 ++Rls9IDKrn1TBUIyyM2NcI7J2u36kLfXcxwRBjr/m1b+HPP+imNYKcHauRkr7DzD +rhdyBOfWT7xvTC11CSvwZtPxXOwcxuiQrs7U0lCP1ztBGL0/vWd0gwj3tVj28dcW +M3wsRVbBOkRoiZ+vuEc861DZyidvF5s8QWirAGsO4rFE7iwcy0fakYh9cWIUJWDJ +zi3nCR5qF56Lgt06+ZTb1M2rleeetsnCmDPRFFIIFtc27rbD4rgvNy7WU0/PcMVV +RDu/ayua+xhP8KwRzYHOP/Gsg5hSKZUmUzk4IRtYP3vGyn+WXNTkjDl1pMFMQl/g +cDB4XDj1fW5o3uv4vHrpdEVv4k7J6GMIHTjmn4eAz0MmdqrOZPyvlfqY7PEUQr31 +p5kPMDiWdyrjWWwX4zrGA2IiSXS+euquJGzm2e59CCKomn8VP28= +=XYG2 +-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- diff --git a/meeting-logs/20240908-summary.txt b/meeting-logs/20240908-summary.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000..43a2934 --- /dev/null +++ b/meeting-logs/20240908-summary.txt @@ -0,0 +1,80 @@ +Summary of Gentoo Council meeting 2024-09-08 + +Agenda [1] +========== + +1. Roll call +2. Foundation dissolution status update +3. Updated GLEP 83 "EAPI deprecation" [2] +4. Open bugs with Council participation +5. Open floor + + +Roll call +========= + +Present: AndrewAmmerlaan (proxy for robbat2), arthurzam, dilfridge, mgorny, sam, soap, ulm +Absent: - + + +Foundation dissolution status update +==================================== + +No major updates. AGM (Annual General Meeting) was held on 31 August, and +discussions about dissolving bank accounts continue. + + +Updated GLEP 83 "EAPI deprecation" +================================== + +ulm presented his GLEP 83 "EAPI deprecation" update, which allows for +deprecating an EAPI n-1 where EAPI n is the most recent. The motion for the +updated GLEP was approved unanimously. + + +Open bugs with council involvement +================================== + +Bug 938922 - GLEP 76 fix +------------------------ + +Marked as resolved, since noone objected. + + +Bug 938755 - GLEP 83 "EAPI deprecation" +--------------------------------------- + +Motion discussed and passed earlier. + + +Bug 925014 - PR services redundancy +----------------------------------- + +Credentials have been shared with multiple other people. + + +Bug 801499 - Nitrokey 3 upgrade +------------------------------- + +Soap will approach Yubico soon. + + +Bug 936914 - ARM64 server replacement +------------------------------------- + +We will be getting a donated Ampere Altra server, expected some time in September. + + +Open floor +========== + +arthurzam updated the council on a number of arches: + +- mips deptree nearly clean and will be made a stable profile asap. +- dilfridge started a cross-distro effort on the time64-on-32bit arches. Many + different opinions between distros on how to handle this. + + +------------------------------------------------------------------------------- +[1] https://marc.info/?l=gentoo-project&m=172581201404108&w=2 +[2] https://marc.info/?l=gentoo-dev&m=172519822825572 diff --git a/meeting-logs/20240908-summary.txt.asc b/meeting-logs/20240908-summary.txt.asc new file mode 100644 index 0000000..6e90613 --- /dev/null +++ b/meeting-logs/20240908-summary.txt.asc @@ -0,0 +1,19 @@ +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- +Version: GnuPG v2 + +iQKTBAABCgB9FiEEuNUxXaAAcsCoYIifzjbhFyAuOEIFAmbiIzlfFIAAAAAALgAo +aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldEI4 +RDUzMTVEQTAwMDcyQzBBODYwODg5RkNFMzZFMTE3MjAyRTM4NDIACgkQzjbhFyAu +OEKawBAAnFKgn8RjnJW2V2lz9RIiZAQ6dzaDPr4vEK1S7CSuGys4DPv4+ucC++kh +tlTO9wd24ez5dLF41isd7KuMUMdv0gd3qRaOF3eSXJijCqYk/GWRsM8o5zcB5nXf +IsFRn8ap5uv1YsT93mTlCODNEmbGk+zmpzpxlcFaN9ifDf4BYASe5BmAcPWmyGw6 +zNgAMnlZur0VlWsH1oqz5yjBb8pKIVUQ2m9w1Oloy949txlEgH/2U4Rmmn4U9qVY +wm4EkjPrBECgmCi38ZLys+FPh1Gf1PxpFUUfViJMbqn1Ahe5WDTnzNt3dadPt4kJ +fZQg7XsyMGW27Zm0HetHMYegXiy870JKw9GFcUIZOt+v1l5IuLkN7t3w1v4KOpTU +Ki9p8fnmdxTWHJjJEyC4ZFOe44x0+0exXKTKPFHtPhgqOVI1xmkNv6TNs4zVV6CC +0vNlMCNQ0aVBxKgKPljuRitDnbEDC1PwmHsAgMbDagHOKfc+MpGRO2h0CXrNziG6 +koRFW2RTNCK6OJnNpZEXhW+ZgdOZoIpFYIkuW9GtcpqX7kHUWM1JxF9qzU89tYO2 +27os5xoVZ+XoXzg0q95Fl8tsoCUkxkR3uR+4sIqdysvxhaXYnwdYtJtzEr8YRl2n +z+AIdbVAzEXBW0li7886Rwi1chAUJLs3e9iIPYGuE3is4619TAw= +=NDjg +-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- diff --git a/meeting-logs/20240908.txt b/meeting-logs/20240908.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000..dd27636 --- /dev/null +++ b/meeting-logs/20240908.txt @@ -0,0 +1,159 @@ +[19:00:36] <@soap> ok, let's start this meeting +[19:00:51] <@soap> agenda for today: https://marc.info/?l=gentoo-project&m=172581201404108&w=2 +[19:01:02] <@soap> 1. Roll call +[19:01:05] -*- arthurzam here +[19:01:11] -*- soap here +[19:01:14] -*- mgorny here +[19:01:16] -*- sam_ here +[19:01:16] -*- dilfridge here +[19:01:22] <+AndrewAmmerlaan> I'm substituting for robbat2 who cannot be here today +[19:01:58] -*- ulm here +[19:02:06] <@soap> ok, everyone here +[19:02:13] <@soap> 2. Foundation dissolution status update +[19:02:23] <@dilfridge> afaik no news since last month +[19:02:36] <@soap> we had our AGM on 31 August +[19:02:59] <@dilfridge> we've been talking about who needs to be physically present for dissolving the bank accounts +[19:03:29] <@dilfridge> right, robbat2 posted some letters of president and treasurer, which are in the log there +[19:03:50] <@soap> ulm: anything else? +[19:05:12] <@ulm> no, that was it I think +[19:05:18] <@soap> ok good +[19:05:30] <@soap> 3. Updated GLEP 83 "EAPI deprecation" +[19:05:55] <@soap> ulm's suggested changes: https://public-inbox.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/u8qwb4hek@gentoo.org/ +[19:06:05] <@soap> ulm: want to give a quick overview? +[19:06:16] <@arthurzam> A funny case because we take our time with EAPI=9 +[19:06:45] <@ulm> the idea is not to delay deprecation forever +[19:06:53] <@soap> second that +[19:06:58] <@ulm> it's all in the rationale +[19:07:04] <@ulm> and the example +[19:07:39] <@dilfridge> https://gentoo.akhuettel.de/plots/eapi.php (and EAPI=6 is gone) +[19:07:52] <@soap> I'm fine with this, let's vote on it if noone has any objections? +[19:08:17] <@soap> motion: pass ulm's GLEP 83 "EAPI deprecation" update v2 +[19:08:23] -*- dilfridge yes +[19:08:24] -*- arthurzam yes +[19:08:27] -*- soap yes +[19:08:30] -*- sam_ yes +[19:08:33] -*- ulm yes +[19:08:36] <+AndrewAmmerlaan> on behalf of robbat2 I vote yes +[19:08:50] -*- mgorny yes +[19:09:03] <@ulm> thank you :) +[19:09:05] <-- rich0 (~quassel@gentoo/developer/rich0) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) +[19:09:08] <@soap> motion passed +[19:09:21] --> rich0 (~quassel@gentoo/developer/rich0) has joined #gentoo-council +[19:09:21] *** Mode #gentoo-council +v rich0 by ChanServ +[19:09:24] <@soap> 4. Open bugs with Council participation +[19:09:30] <-- mpagano (~quassel@gentoo/developer/mpagano) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) +[19:10:04] <@soap> bug 938922 +[19:10:05] <willikins> soap: https://bugs.gentoo.org/938922 "GLEP 76: Fix date of copyright assignment document"; Documentation, GLEP Changes; CONF; ulm:glep +[19:10:35] <@soap> I dont think we need to vote on this? +[19:10:46] <@sam_> it's fine +[19:10:48] <@arthurzam> I think we all acknoledge the action here indeed +[19:10:51] <@ulm> nobody has raised objections +[19:10:58] <@soap> bug 938755 we just discussed +[19:10:58] <willikins> soap: https://bugs.gentoo.org/938755 "GLEP 83: Allow deprecation when only one newer EAPI exists"; Documentation, GLEP Changes; CONF; ulm:glep +[19:11:03] <@soap> bug 925014 +[19:11:04] <willikins> soap: https://bugs.gentoo.org/925014 "PR services lacking developer redundancy"; Community Relations, User Relations; CONF; ajak:pr +[19:11:20] <@arthurzam> stuff is moving :) +[19:11:24] <@soap> didnt we resolve that one last time? +[19:11:27] <@sam_> alicef has handed over the access now, right? +[19:11:52] <+AndrewAmmerlaan> btw, I also have admin level access to the Discord +[19:11:53] <@dilfridge> she handed it to maffblaster, who ... dunno, handed it to jstein? +[19:12:07] <@dilfridge> it confused me +[19:12:17] <@sam_> ENOTOURPROBLEM? +[19:12:22] <@dilfridge> yes +[19:12:29] <@dilfridge> EOPP +[19:12:39] <@ulm> ack, jstein has access +[19:12:44] <@soap> bug 801499 +[19:12:45] <willikins> soap: https://bugs.gentoo.org/801499 "Approach Nitrokey for Nitrokey 3 upgrade"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; CONF; sam:trustees +[19:13:13] <@soap> I havent found time yet to approach yubico, I'll do it soon, need to hash out a few details with robbat2 for that too +[19:13:21] <@dilfridge> that bug should go into an old washing machine on a field, together with a small bottle of nitro +[19:13:42] <@soap> dilfridge: did your nitrokey also break? ;) +[19:13:56] <@dilfridge> I have not really "used" it so far +[19:14:06] <@dilfridge> I have a yubikey 3 nfc +[19:14:17] <@soap> 3? from 2009 +[19:14:24] <@dilfridge> err, wait, not sure +[19:14:28] <@soap> anyhow, lets keep this moving +[19:14:29] <@dilfridge> not so important though +[19:14:34] <@soap> bug 936914 +[19:14:34] <willikins> soap: https://bugs.gentoo.org/936914 "arm64: Short-term replacement for jiji.arm.dev.gentoo.org"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; CONF; robbat2:trustees +[19:14:39] <@sam_> ah, so +[19:14:41] <@soap> sam_: any updates? +[19:14:44] <@sam_> yes +[19:14:51] <@dilfridge> OOOooooh +[19:14:55] <@sam_> my persistence with Works On Arm (WOA) paid off +[19:15:18] <@sam_> we are getting an Ampere Altra donated +[19:15:29] <@sam_> we have to host it, and we have to send status reports (which I am happy to do) for our use of it +[19:15:34] <@sam_> robbat2 has been handling the logistics +[19:15:36] <@dilfridge> \o\ \o/ /o/ +[19:15:40] <@sam_> we should get it mid to late September! +[19:15:52] <@soap> nice! +[19:16:05] <@sam_> once we have it, we should ask them if they want some news item on the front page or anything like that +[19:16:19] <@dilfridge> definitely +[19:16:29] <@sam_> so yes, all good +[19:16:35] <@sam_> I think we have the temporary machine running at hetzner atm too? +[19:16:36] <@arthurzam> Ampere Altra is the jiji sized machine? or better or worse? +[19:16:42] <@soap> yes +[19:16:42] <@dilfridge> same I think +[19:16:47] <@soap> they're beefy CPUs +[19:16:52] <@dilfridge> Neoverse N1 +[19:16:53] <@soap> also 8.2 IIRC? +[19:16:58] <@sam_> I think it's a bit better but I can't keep up with the ARM offerings tbh +[19:17:01] <@sam_> but roughly the same +[19:17:09] <@sam_> in terms of like order of +[19:17:22] <@arthurzam> sam_: yes, susuwatari is on hetzner, we already use it to fix arm{,64} and mips dep tree +[19:17:32] <@soap> 8.2 is what you want for proper virtualisation +[19:18:02] <@soap> ok, that's it for bugs (the remaining one is just the foundation one) +[19:18:20] <@soap> 5. Open floor +[19:18:30] <@arthurzam> Something small from me +[19:18:53] <@arthurzam> We are getting really close to full mips dep tree, so finger crossed, next council we upgrade it dev -> stable +[19:19:02] <@dilfridge> arthurzam++ +[19:19:15] <@soap> arthurzam: very good +[19:19:16] <@dilfridge> I just checked and the number of broken packages is down to 8 at the moment +[19:19:18] <@sam_> I do want us to see about getting some actual mips hw +[19:19:21] <@soap> arthurzam: what machines are you using for it? +[19:19:23] <@sam_> but we can do that later +[19:19:28] <@mgorny> ftr, i don't think we need separate council vote for that +[19:19:33] <@sam_> agreed +[19:19:35] <@mgorny> i.e. i'd go for marking stable as soon as it's clean +[19:19:36] <@sam_> we haven't in the past +[19:19:37] <@soap> agreed +[19:19:43] <@dilfridge> I woud say, let's switch it once its clean +[19:19:47] <@sam_> yes, do it +[19:19:53] <@soap> I'll take a few weeks off in october, we can look into bringing my mips online +[19:19:57] <@arthurzam> soap: qemu-user mips on arm64 devbox, and matoro's mips hw +[19:19:58] <@soap> unfortunately its an LE +[19:19:59] <@dilfridge> a few stable and most others dev +[19:20:00] <@sam_> honestly I forgot you had it +[19:20:03] <@ulm> we could vote about it now? +[19:20:30] <@dilfridge> ok motion, let's introduce stable mips profiles as soon as the deptree is clean +[19:20:37] -*- arthurzam yes +[19:20:38] <@sam_> sure +[19:20:39] -*- dilfridge yes +[19:20:39] -*- sam_ yes +[19:20:43] -*- ulm yes +[19:20:57] -*- soap yes +[19:21:41] <@dilfridge> then mips and alpha get frontpage news together :) +[19:21:47] -*- mgorny yes +[19:21:48] <+AndrewAmmerlaan> Idk what robbat2 thinks of this, so I'll abstain +[19:21:49] <@arthurzam> I guess good enough for the motion +[19:21:58] <@soap> 6y 1a +[19:22:58] <@arthurzam> I guess we are done with open floor? +[19:22:58] <@dilfridge> we should ask cipunited if they send us some machine :o) or loongson +[19:23:01] <@soap> ok, I'll wait another 2 min +[19:23:15] <@sam_> dilfridge: yes, definitely +[19:23:39] <@dilfridge> maybe after the big arm newsitem :D +[19:24:22] <@dilfridge> oh and +[19:24:27] <@dilfridge> also for open floor +[19:24:50] <@dilfridge> I've kicked off yet another cross-distro debate on the 32bit arch time64 migration +[19:25:27] <@dilfridge> so far debian makes angry wookie noises, a few people are confused or want to just move and take the breakage +[19:25:28] <@ulm> and it's like 5 people with 6 different opinions :/ +[19:25:48] <@dilfridge> and there is conspicuously no opinion from fedora, arch, opensuse +[19:26:02] <@soap> does fedora even still support i386? +[19:26:04] <@mgorny> does fedora even support 32bit? +[19:26:12] <@mgorny> arch32 is practically a separate distro +[19:26:14] <@soap> same for arch +[19:26:16] <@arthurzam> Maybe as "multilib" +[19:26:22] <@arthurzam> (for games and such) +[19:26:28] <@dilfridge> good question, carlos said yes, but maybe he wasnt up to date +[19:26:28] <@soap> arthurzam: I doubt that ABI will change +[19:27:09] <@soap> ok, closing the meeting now +[19:27:12] <@soap> thanks everyone diff --git a/meeting-logs/20240908.txt.asc b/meeting-logs/20240908.txt.asc new file mode 100644 index 0000000..87cde44 --- /dev/null +++ b/meeting-logs/20240908.txt.asc @@ -0,0 +1,19 @@ +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- +Version: GnuPG v2 + +iQKTBAABCgB9FiEEuNUxXaAAcsCoYIifzjbhFyAuOEIFAmbiIz1fFIAAAAAALgAo +aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldEI4 +RDUzMTVEQTAwMDcyQzBBODYwODg5RkNFMzZFMTE3MjAyRTM4NDIACgkQzjbhFyAu +OEJwzhAAt29qr0RQR3+7ov0e+t9u08aro/62h9HY7vOWNXbCALiyoCEmmamPddsO +crQrAHeVdbcNclIKafr4OdN8vHH2h5XvA+M4fPWC50Gss1xbQP74gmqO4EWsctYK ++YLCqATaFXzOh5/t0eO8eJHXBi+LO4w2R792PeN/E9ylVtWsxULUHPtgATscW1Ec +UfpCAxHe8Wb8DbubOSAn7oEBn2bwVV9CUbSNswjBuRW5lXsNdJDRt1B8H6az1ENm +GUhsqkQqr9idCS1sYCgNsEG37QplYxhHanAVMewrmLhoS91mcItvCPWFGWPZakrf +ZZdosvTBopI3wEO21Wf582iR+aiOOCDh8kid58Ne+Dp6wtMhppjspRSWP1/KxVhS +0kHjfw8yRxcDOmWEH9ZPvXwQNcJ3N/XpOY1Q3D9cUmPm4OZ0gdOnSGpfHaeXaRpG +wBmBo8YeWl+bAM03tWY05NafId0ljzQqSBOqtQbyZaZjBAC55Xc9PKwjZJ4HfT6B +xbVCB//jEUWaB8xSP0Y+jXm68RHy6AEDti7OrOEDyBAnx+NyrjWydL3rCq9uGe3W +xZhTkfM0ed5rN9h0vifm3VtmO8ovT2ZD2dsX5uFusEgCsrj/p3YSHLYaxMe8fSWi +KyL0Woig2HcpfvOrLMGoeA0kjQ2wieU6DuBh3wNdyCxHkJ+XzHw= +=LcOD +-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |