Add 2021-03 and 2021-04 meeting logs

Signed-off-by: Andreas K. Hüttel <dilfridge@gentoo.org>

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+[21:02:20] <dilfridge> !proj council
+[21:02:20] <dilfridge> (council@gentoo.org) dilfridge, gyakovlev, mattst88, slyfox, ulm, whissi, williamh
+[21:02:20] <dilfridge> meeting time (now for real)!
+[21:02:21] <willikins> (council@gentoo.org) dilfridge, gyakovlev, mattst88, slyfox, ulm, whissi, williamh
+[21:02:32] <dilfridge> 1) roll call
+[21:02:36] -*- gyakovlev here
+[21:02:37] -*- Whissi here
+[21:02:39] -*- dilfridge here
+[21:02:42] -*- ulm here
+[21:02:49] -*- slyfox here
+[21:02:54] -*- mattst88 here but might have a proxy as well
+[21:03:46] <Whissi> Who is your proxy?
+[21:03:56] <dilfridge> ok let's wait a moment for WilliamH to pop up
+[21:04:06] <mattst88> sam_ and zlogene were fighting over it :)
+[21:06:02] <dilfridge> let's go on 
+[21:06:04] <dilfridge> 2)
+[21:06:13] <dilfridge> Git vs. rsync [1]
+[21:06:19] <dilfridge> https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/message/59f9ac24ceb34abed26c990168b75f87
+[21:06:26] <dilfridge> is there anything we need to discuss here?
+[21:06:49] <ulm> nothing for the council to decide at this time, I would say
+[21:06:50] <mattst88> I don't think so, other than maybe asking infra@ to start investigating how we could have a Git mirroring system
+[21:07:26] <mattst88> mgorny also has an interesting idea that might not require extra infrastructure, AFAIK
+[21:07:48] <mattst88> but yeah, nothing for us to decide :)
+[21:07:54] <dilfridge> right-e-o
+[21:08:02] <dilfridge> so we can probably drop this fast now
+[21:08:06] <antarus> er
+[21:08:18] <dilfridge> antarus: you called?
+[21:08:18] <antarus> I'm looking for people interested in working on it
+[21:08:31] <antarus> if you are relying on 'infra' you are not going to get results
+[21:08:37] <slyfox> worth writing an email to -dev?
+[21:08:39] <sam_> wasn't slashbeast going to?
+[21:08:40] <antarus> (no offense to them)
+[21:09:05] <antarus> but this is partyl where I'm expect council to be more leader-y
+[21:09:30] <antarus> is this project worth doing, can the council help prioritize drive it? Can we fund it with money?
+[21:09:33] <antarus> that sort of thing
+[21:09:57] <antarus> if you don't want to lead that way, thats fine, I'm just trying to point out an opportunity of sorts
+[21:10:03] <antarus> anyway think about it; I don't expect it to be resolved today
+[21:10:16] <mattst88> I'd be happy to have council do a quick vote that just says "we think moving to git by default is worth exploring"
+[21:10:33] <dilfridge> so my 2ct: I dont see any urgent need for action, for me rsync works nicely most of the time
+[21:10:33] <Whissi> Well, worth exploring if all problems are resolved :)
+[21:10:50] <dilfridge> and if it doesnt there's emerge-webrsync
+[21:10:52] <ulm> antarus: maybe too early, because discussion in the ML is still going on
+[21:10:56] <ulm> but you have a point
+[21:11:10] <antarus> I'd also like something like an 'auto-sync' provider
+[21:11:11] <mattst88> Whissi: exploring means finding problems.
+[21:11:21] <antarus> or building compatible providers
+[21:11:39] <antarus> like what if we use web-rsync to bootstrap yoru repo, but it web-rsync'd a git compatible repo?
+[21:12:22] <antarus> mattst88: +1, we can't know without trying, designing everything up front is pretty expensive and not very agile
+[21:12:38] <Whissi> With this sort of complexity I doubt that anything will move in next 5 years but sure =)
+[21:12:38] <mattst88> exactly
+[21:13:14] <mattst88> Whissi: how's your test ::gentoo repo doing, btw?
+[21:13:27] <Whissi> I won't have access until Tuesday
+[21:13:38] <mattst88> did we solve /that/ problem so that you can maybe acknowledge that it's not OMG broken?
+[21:14:02] <mgorny> antarus: like using bit bundles?
+[21:14:22] <Whissi> The people who wants to switch default to git should maybe also write down a list of arguments and the people who want to stick to rsync should do the same. Then we can compare and work on problems we found that way.
+[21:14:57] <mattst88> Whissi: you're way ahead of where antarus and I are
+[21:15:17] <Whissi> In the end I guess there should be `emerge ---config portage` where you switch between rsync and git for example so this shouldn't be a big deal in the end.
+[21:15:19] <WilliamH> Sorry I missed the meeting folks. :(
+[21:15:50] <antarus> Whissi: so my long term plan is to deprecate rsync
+[21:16:06] <antarus> so 'people who want to stick to rsync' would need to spin up their own network, potentially
+[21:16:18] <antarus> but this is again part of the FLOSS promise, right, that would be possible ;p
+[21:17:01] <Whissi> Well, I don't see that happen but write down your arguments why you think this should happen and if we will find no blockers, why not.
+[21:17:24] <mattst88> FWIW, I think Whissi is just being overly negative, and we shouldn't take too much time to try to convince him of anything at the moment
+[21:17:36] <Whissi> WTF?
+[21:17:41] <mattst88> (there's not anything to convince him of at the moment anyway)
+[21:18:01] <mattst88> well, you started by saying "Well, worth exploring if all problems are resolved :)"
+[21:18:36] <Whissi> Probably a misunderstanding:
+[21:19:15] <Whissi> You wanted a vote. But I don't see why we need a vote for improvement. I.e. we can try to improve Gentoo all the time. And if we get a PoC which turns out to be working... we don't need a vote allowing someone to tackle a problem.
+[21:19:48] <sam_> well, antarus said he wanted some leadership here
+[21:19:55] <antarus> I didn't ask for a vote
+[21:19:56] <sam_> i.e. choosing to push for a solution, encourage investigation
+[21:20:02] <mattst88> I was only suggesting that Council affirmed that this was a thing we're interested in
+[21:20:03] <slyfox> I think we need a project owner anyway who would work on more detailed proposal that would outline requirements in a clearer form.
+[21:20:31] <mattst88> yes
+[21:20:44] <mgorny> i think the first step forward would be getting a git bundle generator online
+[21:20:56] <antarus> provide technical leadership is by actually leading; not by simply voting on stuff other people present ;p
+[21:21:10] <mgorny> so people could bootstrap git repo without relying on 'git clone' working
+[21:21:21] <sam_> man, I was just agreeing with you, and saying you were asking for leadership
+[21:21:30] <sam_> (which is different from "we can try to improve Gentoo all the time")
+[21:21:42] <dilfridge> mgorny: is "git clone" still that fragile even for shallow clones?
+[21:22:21] <Whissi> So mattst88 will volunteer to lead the task force exploring possibilities to switch Gentoo repository to git sync by default.
+[21:22:24] <mgorny> dilfridge: i haven't experience that myself but i consider inability to resume to be a serious limitation
+[21:22:32] <dilfridge> that it is
+[21:22:49] <ulm> dilfridge: it doesn't remember what it had downloaded previously
+[21:22:59] <ulm> which I think qualifies as fragile
+[21:23:16] <dilfridge> yeah... not extremely bad for shallow clones, but still quite bad
+[21:23:17] <slyfox> sounds like a nice feature request for ustream git :)
+[21:23:19] <mgorny> the cheap solution is to generate and cache a bundle on server for some time
+[21:23:24] <mgorny> let people fetch it via HTTPS
+[21:23:39] <mgorny> then discard it after N minutes with no activity
+[21:23:39] <sam_> it's not happening upstream
+[21:23:47] <ulm> git is worse than cvs in that respect :)
+[21:23:49] <sam_> I2P were interested in it (it's like Tor) which has unreliable streams
+[21:23:54] <sam_> they wanted this feature for a long time
+[21:23:57] <sam_> they opted for bundles IIRC
+[21:24:03] <slyfox> *nod*
+[21:24:11] <sam_> (upstream git is only interested if I think someone funds the work)
+[21:24:19] <sam_> good question though, I just meant I had some interesting info :)
+[21:24:23] <mgorny> i'm not surprised, tbh
+[21:24:30] <mgorny> it's probably a lot of work to get it right
+[21:24:40] <sam_> yeah, definitely, and I guess they view it as already handled
+[21:25:32] <mgorny> if i find some time, i'll try extending sync mirror with metamanifests on a separate branch
+[21:25:45] <mattst88> dilfridge: next topic?
+[21:25:48] <mgorny> so it would be more useful without actual git backend
+[21:25:54] <dilfridge> next topic
+[21:26:02] <dilfridge> 3) open bugs
+[21:26:26] <dilfridge> bug 736760
+[21:26:27] <willikins> dilfridge: https://bugs.gentoo.org/736760 "Application to Software Freedom Conservancy"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; CONF; mgorny:trustees
+[21:26:32] <dilfridge> anything to discuss here?
+[21:26:43] <sam_> WilliamH: you only missed the start, it's ongoing
+[21:27:03] <ulm> I guess he has figured that :)
+[21:27:10] <WilliamH> Yeah I figured that. :-)
+[21:27:13] <dilfridge> I hope he figured that.
+[21:27:17] <sam_> he hasn't said anything since, so I wasn't sure
+[21:27:20] <dilfridge> seems not
+[21:27:27] <antarus> I'm not sure why this bug in particular is assigned to council
+[21:27:31] <dilfridge> bug 729062
+[21:27:32] <willikins> dilfridge: https://bugs.gentoo.org/729062 "Services and Software which is critical for Gentoo should be developed/run in the Gentoo namespace"; Gentoo Council, unspecified; IN_P; jstein:council
+[21:27:41] <dilfridge> Whissi: isn't that your baby?
+[21:27:42] <antarus> The Foundation met with some other umbrella's recently
+[21:27:47] <Whissi> I swear that the past meeting wasn't 4 weeks ago :p  Anyway, we have scheduled a meeting after today's council meeting and will probably finalize and send our mail Mo/Tue.
+[21:27:51] <antarus> but we have not made significant progress in any direction
+[21:28:13] <dilfridge> ok let's skip the next one, then we get to
+[21:28:21] <dilfridge> bug 774489
+[21:28:22] <willikins> dilfridge: https://bugs.gentoo.org/774489 "GLEP 67: add proxied-maint="" attribute"; Documentation, GLEP Changes; CONF; mgorny:glep
+[21:28:31] <dilfridge> isn't that already done?
+[21:28:50] <mgorny> yes, it is
+[21:28:51] <dilfridge> ok I'll close it later on
+[21:28:52] <ulm> needs to be labelled "final"
+[21:29:00] <WilliamH> Yes, I believe that's already done.
+[21:29:05] <dilfridge> bug 779451
+[21:29:06] <willikins> dilfridge: https://bugs.gentoo.org/779451 "Request to add Gentoo developer business card to Gentoo Artwork"; Gentoo Foundation, Artwork approval; UNCO; alicef:artwork
+[21:29:08] <dilfridge> that's also done
+[21:29:24] <ulm> oh, glep 67 is final already. so no action
+[21:29:36] <dilfridge> ok then we get to
+[21:29:39] <dilfridge> 4) open floor
+[21:29:42] <dilfridge> anyone? antarus?
+[21:29:56] <antarus> hey don't pick on me ! ;p
+[21:29:58] <antarus> I said my piece already
+[21:30:37] <ulm> dilfridge: bug 751010?
+[21:30:38] <willikins> https://bugs.gentoo.org/751010 "Missing log and summaries for 20191110, 20191208, and 20200412 council meetings"; Gentoo Council, unspecified; CONF; ulm:council
+[21:30:38] <WilliamH> I didn't say a lot about switching to git syncing by default because I  tend to agree that we can't until we can support it.
+[21:30:45] <dilfridge> yeah...
+[21:30:59] <ulm> just that it's in the log :p
+[21:31:27] <dilfridge> ok
+[21:31:30] <dilfridge> that's it then
+[21:31:32] <dilfridge> cheerios
+[21:31:37] -*- dilfridge bangs the gavel
+[21:31:40] <dilfridge> meeting closed