Adding log and summary for the 20110408 council meeting.

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+19:59 <@jmbsvicetto> so shall we get ready for the meeting?
+19:59  * amazingpudding is present 
+19:59  * wired here
+20:00  * jmbsvicetto is here
+20:00 <@Betelgeuse> here
+20:01 <@PSYCHO___> Aye
+20:01 <@PSYCHO___> Scarabeus
+20:01 <@jmbsvicetto> ferringb: ^^
+20:01 <@jmbsvicetto> I've phoned chainsaw, but he didn't answer
+20:02 <@jmbsvicetto> let's give him 5 minutes to show up or we'll start
+20:03 <@PSYCHO___> Ok
+20:03 -!- jmbsvicetto changed the topic of #gentoo-council to: Next meeting: Now | agenda: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev-announce/msg_1647b68c074c4a0f1521fe10d9a7670a.xml | http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/utctolocal.html?time=2000 | http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/
+20:03 <@scarabeus> jup
+20:04 <@jmbsvicetto> Does anyone want to address the first 2 points in the agenda? (project Canterbury and Gentoo's restructure)
+20:04 <@jmbsvicetto> or can we leave that for next year? ;)
+20:04 <@PSYCHO___> Nup
+20:04 <@PSYCHO___> Yup
+20:05 <@amazingpudding> cb ... good plan, where do we start?
+20:05 <@Betelgeuse> jmbsvicetto: Gentoo should have obsoleted Debian and the others by then
+20:05 <@jmbsvicetto> Betelgeuse: I suppose we can start with the council app
+20:05 <@wired> well project canterbury was a success, nuff said :P
+20:06 <@jmbsvicetto> ok, it seems chainsaw isn't going to attend, so let's start
+20:06 <@Betelgeuse> For the web app we first need to decide if we want one and then what we would like in it
+20:06 <@jmbsvicetto> Betelgeuse: want to start?
+20:06 <@Betelgeuse> If we do it then it will be iterative so that people can offer input all the time
+20:06 <@Betelgeuse> jmbsvicetto: already did :)
+20:07 <@jmbsvicetto> ok, I don't know what I would use it for, so why should I care about it? What can it do for me / us?
+20:07 <@ferringb> Betelgeuse: lnk...?
+20:07 <@Betelgeuse> http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/proposal/review/google/gsoc2011/jbartosik/1
+20:07 <@Betelgeuse> Is this link public?
+20:08 <@wired> it is
+20:08 <@ferringb> ugh
+20:08 <@ferringb> google needs to lay off the tron/whatever-the-hell-gsoc11-image-uses font
+20:09 <@ferringb> Betelgeuse: haven't been involved in gsoc this year beyond commenting on proposals; when is the due date?
+20:09 <@Betelgeuse> ferringb: it was today
+20:09 <@Betelgeuse> ferringb: for applications
+20:09 <@ferringb> presume it's not immutable?
+20:09 <@ferringb> *now immutable
+20:09 <@Betelgeuse> ferringb: the feature set is not set in stone
+20:10  * ferringb wants the requirements locked in
+20:10 <@ferringb> deliverables w/out requirements makes it hard to evaluate the underlying intent
+20:10 <@ferringb> grok?
+20:11 <@Betelgeuse> Basically I see at least these as valuable 1) doodle like feature or doodle integration for setting times 2) irc bot for automatic log handling (integrate with some existing software) 3) handling agendas
+20:11 <@Betelgeuse> Handling voting is nice too
+20:11 <@Betelgeuse> so that you don't ahve to manually count on IRC
+20:11 <@wired> i like the idea, mainly for agenda and user submittions
+20:11 <@jmbsvicetto> chainsaw should show up in around 25 minutes
+20:11 <@wired> submissions even
+20:12 <@ferringb> Betelgeuse: gentoo has an openid provider service running?
+20:12 <@jmbsvicetto> I told him we would try to push any votings to the end
+20:12 <@PSYCHO___> Why not bond it ti our ldap
+20:12 <@jmbsvicetto> Betelgeuse: those 3 sound nice
+20:12 <@Betelgeuse> ferringb: you can proxy through dev.gentoo.org/~nick
+20:12 <@ferringb> Betelgeuse: eh
+20:12 <@Betelgeuse> ferringb: that's what we did for the recruiting app
+20:12 <@ferringb> sorry, keyboard's being fucky.  the 'eh' was a gutteral sound intended as a question. ;)
+20:13 <@ferringb> what, just verifying dev.gentoo.org/~me/ exists?
+20:13 <@Betelgeuse> ferringb: check the html source for dev.gentoo.org/~betelgeuse
+20:13 <@ferringb> cause that isn't really doing providing ;)
+20:13 <@PSYCHO___> Thats brutal :)
+20:13 -!- bicatali [~bicatali@gentoo/developer/bicatali] has joined #gentoo-council
+20:13 <@jmbsvicetto> Betelgeuse: btw, I got the impression that infra might host some django stuff soon. If that happens, django might prove a better choice than RoR
+20:14 <@Betelgeuse> jmbsvicetto: jbartosik did the recruiting app with rails last yea
+20:14 <@ferringb> Betelgeuse: check the source of dev.gentoo.org/~ferringb/
+20:14 <@ferringb> Betelgeuse: I'm talking about an *actual* openid provider
+20:14 <@jmbsvicetto> Betelgeuse: yeah, I know last year it was RoR
+20:14 <@ferringb> not requiring devs to hack up a local index.html
+20:14 <@Betelgeuse> ferringb: we don't have that
+20:14 <@ferringb> yeah, I know
+20:14 <@ferringb> hence the openid login bit is slightly off
+20:14 <@ferringb> that infra would have to be built out, bound to ldap
+20:14 <@Betelgeuse> it is but I would like infra to do git first
+20:14 <@Betelgeuse> :)
+20:15 <@ferringb> it's an uncontrolled dep, something of a critical one
+20:15 <@jmbsvicetto> so, no objection about seeing what we can get from a council app?
+20:15 <@jmbsvicetto> Does anyone want to deal directly with this issue?
+20:15 <@jmbsvicetto> Betelgeuse: you?
+20:15 <@Betelgeuse> Ideally we have a mentor from the council
+20:15 <@Betelgeuse> or at least someone closely involved
+20:16 <@Betelgeuse> I will at least be doing the libbash project
+20:16 <@Betelgeuse> But if there's no other takers then I can do that one too
+20:16 <@ferringb> proxy bit doesn't work when a non dev is used
+20:17 <@ferringb> although I'llbe damned if I can recall if that's even technically allowed (I'm fairly sure it's occured however)
+20:17 <@Betelgeuse> ferringb: there were plenty of discussions when someone nominated ciaramn
+20:17 <@wired> i find it wrong
+20:17 <@jmbsvicetto> ferringb: there's no requirement for the proxy to be a dev
+20:17 <@ferringb> Betelgeuse: "discussion" might be a nice term for those events. ;)
+20:18 <@wired> how can anyone take important global-level gentoo decisions and/or vote if they haven't even gone through the recruitment process
+20:18 <@ferringb> auth infrastructure there has some issues imo
+20:18 <@ferringb> openid makes sense (for allowing non devs to submit things), but requires gentoo infra. to have that sorted for the people who normally submit (council/devs)
+20:19 <@wired> ferringb: so we could have openid for users and ldap for devs
+20:19 <@Betelgeuse> It's quite easy to switch backends with devise any way
+20:20 <@Betelgeuse> So once infra provides something better it should be easy to add
+20:20 <@ferringb> but not particularly desirable to try and have differing auths in use
+20:20 <@ferringb> especially for someone who is starting out from scratch and doing this sort of thing
+20:20 <@ferringb> regardless, the infra/open-id thing I already beat up a bit, so I'll move on
+20:20 <@Betelgeuse> ferringb: multiauthentication is matter of hours with the library set suggested
+20:21 <@Betelgeuse> ferringb: And in this case copy paste from one of my projects
+20:21 <@jmbsvicetto> ferringb / Betelgeuse: perhaps we should discuss details later?
+20:21 <@ferringb> Betelgeuse: you know what you're doing.
+20:21 <@ferringb> as do I
+20:21 <@amazingpudding> yes please
+20:21 <@jmbsvicetto> for now we should only focus on whether the council app is something we want and or care?
+20:21 <@Betelgeuse> So did we agree that let's see what the project produces?
+20:22 <@wired> Betelgeuse: yes
+20:22 <@ferringb> Betelgeuse: one thing I've learned from gsoc is that dev's kind of suck at estimating times for others, since most of the time we've done it already and have a fair amount of experience ;)
+20:22 <@ferringb> just is a concern point
+20:22 <@Betelgeuse> ferringb: well jbartosik wrote the hobo_devise gem :)
+20:22 <@jmbsvicetto> seems like there's no objection, so we should pick someone to pursue this issue
+20:23 <@jmbsvicetto> so unless someone else steps forward, Betelgeuse will look into it?
+20:23 <@ferringb> Betelgeuse: eenie meenie.  you get my point :P
+20:23 <@Betelgeuse> jmbsvicetto: yes
+20:23 <@Betelgeuse> ferringb: yes
+20:23  * ferringb would like to track it if you don't mind
+20:23 <@ferringb> basically being the nagging "what about this, what about that?" voice. ;)
+20:23  * ferringb is good at nagging you see
+20:23 <@Betelgeuse> ferringb: sounds good
+20:25 -!- Chainsaw [~chainsaw@gentoo/developer/atheme.member.chainsaw] has joined #gentoo-council
+20:25 -!- mode/#gentoo-council [+o Chainsaw] by ChanServ
+20:25 <@Chainsaw> I'm here, sorry!
+20:25 <@wired> no worries, welcome
+20:25 <@Chainsaw> (On a bus right now, will have to disconnect in about 10 minutes when I get to my stop)
+20:25 <@Chainsaw> So, where were we?
+20:26 <@jmbsvicetto> Chainsaw: we just decided to see what a student has to show us for a council app (GSoC project) and that Betelgeuse and ferringb will work with him
+20:27 <@Chainsaw> jmbsvicetto: *nod*
+20:27 <@ferringb> modification to roles: betelgeuse is mentoring/whatnot, I'm harassing/watchinvg
+20:27 <@ferringb> *watching
+20:27 <@jmbsvicetto> ok, so let me talk about the slacking arches topic
+20:28 <@Chainsaw> I might be able to get a Mac Mini G4; which would allow me to get my G5 on linux again. (I think PPC64 is among those at risk)
+20:28 <@PSYCHO___> Its more you talking and us listening :)
+20:28 <@jmbsvicetto> So, I had planned to send another round of emails at the start of this week, but work got in the way
+20:28 <@jmbsvicetto> I'm planning to send 3 or 4 mails to the public mls this weekend
+20:29 <@jmbsvicetto> So the mails will focus on "hiring people" (to address the lack of people), "automated testing", "statistics" and a revised email about "arch resources"
+20:30 <@jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Do you have any requirements / wishes about policies or are you happy in having that wait for the results of the discussions?
+20:30 <@Chainsaw> That seems the most productive approach, yes. Trying to address problem instead of trying to revoke status.
+20:30 <@Chainsaw> +the
+20:30 <@PSYCHO___> we can waut for sure
+20:31 <@jmbsvicetto> ok, so that's all I have about this for now
+20:31 <@Chainsaw> I feel at least partially responsible for the PPC/PPC64 situation, and will try to do better there.
+20:31 <@Chainsaw> My stop is coming up.
+20:31 <@Chainsaw> Will reconnect from home.
+20:31 <@Chainsaw> ~5 minutes at most.
+20:31 <@jmbsvicetto> Is there anything else you want to talk about before we go to bugs?
+20:31 -!- Chainsaw [~chainsaw@gentoo/developer/atheme.member.chainsaw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
+20:32 <@wired> jmbsvicetto: I have a particular interest in the automated testing thingy, what are you planning to send in your email regarding that?
+20:33 <@jmbsvicetto> I plan to send an email starting a discussion about it but expressing why I care about it, what I envision we could be doing with it and asking for ideas about what to test, how to test and how to get us doing it
+20:33 <@jmbsvicetto> s/but/by/
+20:33 <@PSYCHO___> i wanted to ask if any of you know about git migration status for gentoo cvs tree not gentoo-x86
+20:33 <@ferringb> wrong forum
+20:33 <@ferringb> gentoo-scm ml
+20:34 <@ferringb> also, use the scarabeus nick please (recall we log this)
+20:34 <@jmbsvicetto> ferringb: that one has been focusing more on gentoo-x86 than the other trees
+20:34 <@wired> jmbsvicetto: thats about the same thing I have in mind, I can help and/or send that mail if you want some help there :)
+20:34 <@ferringb> mmm, right.  then the answer is "for existing projects, they can migrate if they want to".  I'm not aware of an infra push to kill cvs in full...
+20:34 <@ferringb> same applies for svn
+20:35 <@jmbsvicetto> wired: I'll send that email for sure, but all help in the discussion and getting the project help is most welcome
+20:35 <@PSYCHO___> if you make my net work i will gladly use the nick but so far i am stuck with droid
+20:35 <@jmbsvicetto> sorry, getting the project running*
+20:36 <@wired> jmbsvicetto: okie. ive been thinking about this since fosdem but never managed to sit down and write an email about it, i'll definately contribute :)
+20:36 -!- Chainsaw [~chainsaw@gentoo/developer/atheme.member.chainsaw] has joined #gentoo-council
+20:36 -!- mode/#gentoo-council [+o Chainsaw] by ChanServ
+20:36 <@Chainsaw> Right. Back.
+20:37 <@jmbsvicetto> so, anything else or should we move to bugs?
+20:37 <@Chainsaw> Please proceed.
+20:38 <@jmbsvicetto> I have a small issue with my work dns server at the moment, so can one of you please paste the bug numbers?
+20:38 <@Betelgeuse> jmbsvicetto: money run out? :)
+20:39 <@jmbsvicetto> the dns server seems to be unable to resolve names at times
+20:39 <@jmbsvicetto> ok, got resolution working again
+20:39 <@jmbsvicetto> I'll paste the bug numbers
+20:40 <@jmbsvicetto> bug 234706
+20:40 < willikins> jmbsvicetto: https://bugs.gentoo.org/234706 "Slacker arches"; Gentoo Linux, Unspecified; NEW; dberkholz:council
+20:40 <@jmbsvicetto> Do we want to add a note to this one about the ongoing work? scarabeus want to do it?
+20:41 <@PSYCHO___> why it can wait until we sort it out
+20:41 <@PSYCHO___> not much ccs anyway
+20:42 <@jmbsvicetto> right, but we might want to add a simple note that the council is working on this
+20:42 <@jmbsvicetto> bug 234711
+20:42 < willikins> jmbsvicetto: https://bugs.gentoo.org/234711 "GLEP 54: scm package version suffix"; Gentoo Linux, Unspecified; NEW; dberkholz:lu_zero
+20:42 <@jmbsvicetto> any reason to keep it open?
+20:42 <@jmbsvicetto> bug 237381
+20:42 < willikins> jmbsvicetto: https://bugs.gentoo.org/237381 "Document appeals process"; Gentoo Linux, Unspecified; NEW; dberkholz:dberkholz
+20:43 <@jmbsvicetto> This one is mine. I'll take care of this until next meeting. I promise
+20:43 -!- zmedico [~zmedico@gentoo/developer/zmedico] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
+20:44 <@jmbsvicetto> So?
+20:44 <@jmbsvicetto> opinions?
+20:44 <@Chainsaw> I have complete confidence in your ability to resolve it.
+20:45 <@wired> +1 on a status update for the slacker bug, 237381 is all yours :)
+20:45 <@jmbsvicetto> I meant about bug 234711
+20:45 < willikins> jmbsvicetto: https://bugs.gentoo.org/234711 "GLEP 54: scm package version suffix"; Gentoo Linux, Unspecified; NEW; dberkholz:lu_zero
+20:46 <@wired> jmbsvicetto: iirc at a past meeting we decided that if 54 ever happens, we'd rather use "live" over "scm"
+20:46 <@PSYCHO___> yah what  wired said
+20:46 < Calchan>  /win 13
+20:46 <@amazingpudding> and flying unicorns instead of pigs
+20:47 <@jmbsvicetto> bug 316401 and bug 331987 are on infra side
+20:47 < willikins> jmbsvicetto: https://bugs.gentoo.org/316401 "Add resolution OBSOLETE"; Bugzilla, General Bugs; ASSI; betelgeuse:bugzilla
+20:47 <@wired> other than that update, i'd leave that bug there to remind us that we need to do something about it
+20:47 <@jmbsvicetto> right, but is there any reason to keep it open and not close it as WONTFIX?
+20:47 <@jmbsvicetto> ok
+20:47 <@jmbsvicetto> I'll add a note about the live over scm and let it be
+20:48 <@jmbsvicetto> bug 341959
+20:48 < willikins> jmbsvicetto: https://bugs.gentoo.org/341959 "council changed the waiting period in "eclass removal policy""; Doc Other, Devmanual; REOP; tove:qa
+20:48 <@Chainsaw> jmbsvicetto: Seems the best. I doubt 54 will ever make it.
+20:48 <@PSYCHO___> devmanual needs update
+20:49 <@wired> jmbsvicetto: i'll handle this one
+20:49 <@jmbsvicetto> PSYCHO___: anything else? Do you want to track this one?
+20:49 <@jmbsvicetto> wired: ok, thanks
+20:49 <@jmbsvicetto> the last one is bug 344479
+20:49 < willikins> jmbsvicetto: https://bugs.gentoo.org/344479 "Slacker point for ferringb"; Gentoo Linux, Unspecified; NEW; tove:council
+20:49 <@PSYCHO___> ook
+20:50 <@PSYCHO___> brian was supposed to close it
+20:50 <@wired> indeed
+20:50 -!- zmedico [~zmedico@gentoo/developer/zmedico] has joined #gentoo-council
+20:50 <@wired> ferringb: slacker mark for not hanlding your own bug? :D
+20:50 <@wired> handling*
+20:52 <@jmbsvicetto> Can any of you find any bug I've missed?
+20:52 <@wired> jmbsvicetto: im just kidding, lets give ferringb another chance to handle it
+20:52 <@jmbsvicetto> wired: sure
+20:53 <@jmbsvicetto> so unless I've missed any bug, we can move forward to next meeting's chair and date
+20:54 <@jmbsvicetto> anyone wants to volunteer to be next meeting's chair?
+20:54 <@PSYCHO___> i can do it
+20:55 <@amazingpudding> can do
+20:55 <@jmbsvicetto> which one of you will do it?
+20:56 <@amazingpudding> scarabeus is faster
+20:56 <@jmbsvicetto> hehe, ok
+20:56 <@PSYCHO___> hh
+20:56 <@jmbsvicetto> So next meeting date?
+20:56 <@jmbsvicetto> what about Friday, 6th of May?
+20:56 <@jmbsvicetto> 4 weeks from now
+20:56 <@PSYCHO___> ook
+20:57 <@amazingpudding> preliminary ok
+20:57 <@wired> 6th is fine, although i'd prefer tuesday
+20:57 <@PSYCHO___> 20:00
+20:57 <@jmbsvicetto> Betelgeuse / Chainsaw / ferringb: ^^ 
+20:57 <@jmbsvicetto> Do we want to try Tuesday for next meeting? 10th of May?
+20:57 <@Betelgeuse> 6th ok
+20:58 <@Betelgeuse> 19UTC preferred
+20:59 <@wired> no problem for 19utc here
+20:59 <@jmbsvicetto> ferringb / Chainsaw: ^^
+21:00 <@PSYCHO___> ...
+21:01 <@Chainsaw> I can do Tuesdays, as long as it's not the first of the month.
+21:01 <@jmbsvicetto> shall we discuss the date over email? I'd rather add it to the log / summary
+21:01 <@Chainsaw> Would that work for people?
+21:01 -!- Zorry [~zorry@gentoo/developer/zorry] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
+21:01 <@jmbsvicetto> it works for me. I can do both 6th and 10th (1900 and 2000 UTC)
+21:02 <@ferringb> jmbsvicetto: work interuption, pardon
+21:02 <@ferringb> as said, noon till 1pm my time (19:00utc) is *way* better than 2000 utc
+21:02 <@Chainsaw> 10th is the second Tuesday of the month. Yeah, I can be there.
+21:02 <@Chainsaw> And I can make 7pm work.
+21:02 <@PSYCHO___> 19:00 is ok
+21:02 <@Chainsaw> (It's 8pm my time anyway)
+21:02 <@ferringb> PSYCHO___: re: closing that bug, as I mentioned, will leave it up to other folk to sort.
+21:03 <@jmbsvicetto> so 1900 UTC? What day?
+21:03 <@Chainsaw> jmbsvicetto: Tuesday the 10th of May please.
+21:03 <@jmbsvicetto> ferringb: ok, I'll take care of that bug then
+21:04 <@wired> so, the 10th it is?
+21:04 <@ferringb> jmbsvicetto: day doesn't matter to me, 1900 is a hard req now though
+21:05 <@Betelgeuse> ferringb: I can do 20 if 19 doesn't work
+21:05 -!- PSYCHO___ [~AndChat@gentoo/developer/flyingspaghettimonster/scarabeus] has quit [Quit: Bye]
+21:05 <@jmbsvicetto> so unless anyone objects in the next 2 minutes, 10th of May, 19000 UTC
+21:05  * ferringb can't do 20
+21:05 <@ferringb> not without significant interuptions from work
+21:05 <@jmbsvicetto> 1900 *
+21:07 -!- NeddySeagoon [~NeddySeag@gentoo/developer/NeddySeagoon] has joined #gentoo-council
+21:07 <@amazingpudding> i'm in .eu timezone again
+21:07 <@wired> jmbsvicetto: two minutes passed ;p
+21:07  * Chainsaw raises two thumbs
+21:07 <@Chainsaw> (And will try not to be on a bus/train at the time!)
+21:08 <@jmbsvicetto> ok, so next meeting 10th of May 1900 UTC
+21:08 <@wired> great
+21:08 <@jmbsvicetto> All that is left is to open the floor
+21:08 <@wired> thanks :)
+21:08 <@jmbsvicetto> A public service announcement, there's less than 3 hours left to vote in the foundation election
+21:08 <@Chainsaw> I voted!
+21:08  * wired voted
+21:09 <@jmbsvicetto> if you haven't voted yet, do so ASAP!!
+21:09 <@jmbsvicetto> thanks guys for your time
+21:09 <@wired> and thank you for chairing
+21:09 <@jmbsvicetto> I'm working on the summary and will try to commit it in a bit
+21:10 <@jmbsvicetto> Does anyone have any issue that would like to bring to the atttention of the council?
+21:10 <@Chainsaw> Thanks for calling jmbsvicetto. Putting your number in my phone now.
+21:12 <@jmbsvicetto> Chainsaw: you're welcome
+21:20 <@Chainsaw> Anyone for the council open mic night? You can bring a guitar?
+21:24 <@amazingpudding> bad idea
+21:27 <@jmbsvicetto> http://dpaste.com/530139/ <- any comments / correctiosn ?
+21:27 <@jmbsvicetto> corrections*
+21:30 <@ferringb> Chainsaw: ukele count?
+21:30 <@ferringb> *ukulele
+21:30 <@wired> jmbsvicetto: please word wrap :P
+21:30 <@wired> gqq :)
+21:30 <@jmbsvicetto> ferringb: I can bring a portuguese guitar too ;)
+21:31 <@ferringb> although I did see a rather entertaining attempt of bohemian rhapsody via ukulele
+21:31  * jmbsvicetto closes the meeting
+21:31 -!- jmbsvicetto changed the topic of #gentoo-council to: Next meeting: 20110510 1900UTC | http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/utctolocal.html?time=1900 | http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/