Improve 14/8/2008

8 files changed, 133 insertions, 141 deletions

diff --git a/decisions/decisions.but b/decisions/decisions.but
index 4affa83..17d718b 100644
--- a/decisions/decisions.but
+++ b/decisions/decisions.but
@@ -38,8 +38,12 @@ EAPI-1 tracker
 [Future EAPI] have econf run ./configure with --disable-dependency-tracking
 21310
 a standard way to install includes (doinclude/doheader)
+222721
+/bin/sh is removed when re-emerging bash even if mtime changed
 229521
 [Future EAPI] Add support for multi slot dependencies
+232990
+2.2_rc2 --jobs breaks PMS's invariants
 234705
 Document of being an active developer
 234706
diff --git a/decisions/decisions.bux b/decisions/decisions.bux
index 4a79573..edaf889 100644
--- a/decisions/decisions.bux
+++ b/decisions/decisions.bux
@@ -24,6 +24,10 @@ PMS;PMS!version components
 EAPI!1
 211529
 --disable-dependency-tracking;src_configure;econf
+222721
+package!app-shells/bash;package!sys-apps/portage;PMS;/bin/sh
+232990
+package!sys-apps/portage;PMS;metadata invariance
 234705
 developer certificate
 234706
diff --git a/decisions/decisions.ded b/decisions/decisions.ded
index 6601104..ae53e43 100644
--- a/decisions/decisions.ded
+++ b/decisions/decisions.ded
@@ -109,9 +109,15 @@ Wulf Krueger
 ramereth
 Lance Albertson
 
+rane
+Łukasz Damentko
+
 rich0
 Richard Freeman
 
+ricmm
+Ricardo Mendoza
+
 robbat2
 Robin H. Johnson
 
@@ -148,3 +154,9 @@ Peter Weller
 wolf31o2
 Chris Gianelloni
 
+yngwin
+Ben de Groot
+https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:Yngwin
+zmedico
+Zac Medico
+https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:Zmedico
diff --git a/decisions/decisions.kilepr b/decisions/decisions.kilepr
index 5535a0c..afcb398 100644
--- a/decisions/decisions.kilepr
+++ b/decisions/decisions.kilepr
@@ -4,7 +4,7 @@ img_extIsRegExp=false
 img_extensions=.eps .jpg .jpeg .png .pdf .ps .fig .gif
 kileprversion=2
 kileversion=2.1.3
-lastDocument=summary-20080724.tex
+lastDocument=decisions.bux
 masterDocument=
 name=Gentoo Council Decicisions Index
 pkg_extIsRegExp=false
@@ -1183,20 +1183,20 @@ order=-1
 
 [item:decisions.bux]
 archive=true
-column=29
+column=48
 encoding=UTF-8
 highlight=None
-line=5
+line=29
 mode=
 open=true
 order=1
 
 [item:decisions.ded]
 archive=true
-column=11
+column=0
 encoding=UTF-8
 highlight=None
-line=7
+line=162
 mode=
 open=true
 order=2
@@ -1608,7 +1608,7 @@ encoding=UTF-8
 highlight=LaTeX
 line=35
 mode=LaTeX
-open=true
+open=false
 order=5
 
 [item:summary-20080814.tex]
@@ -1616,10 +1616,10 @@ archive=true
 column=0
 encoding=UTF-8
 highlight=LaTeX
-line=0
+line=113
 mode=LaTeX
-open=false
-order=-1
+open=true
+order=5
 
 [item:summary-20080828.tex]
 archive=true
@@ -2832,16 +2832,16 @@ open=false
 order=-1
 
 [view-settings,view=0,item:decisions.bux]
-CursorColumn=29
-CursorLine=5
+CursorColumn=48
+CursorLine=29
 JumpList=
-ViMarks=.,5,28,[,4,0,],5,28
+ViMarks=.,29,47,[,28,0,],29,47
 
 [view-settings,view=0,item:decisions.ded]
-CursorColumn=11
-CursorLine=7
+CursorColumn=0
+CursorLine=162
 JumpList=
-ViMarks=.,7,10,[,7,5,],7,10
+ViMarks=.,161,41,[,158,0,],-1,-1
 
 [view-settings,view=0,item:decisions.gld]
 CursorColumn=22
@@ -3091,9 +3091,9 @@ ViMarks=.,21,59,[,21,32,],21,59
 
 [view-settings,view=0,item:summary-20080814.tex]
 CursorColumn=0
-CursorLine=0
+CursorLine=113
 JumpList=
-ViMarks=
+ViMarks=.,106,17,[,106,5,],106,17
 
 [view-settings,view=0,item:summary-20080828.tex]
 CursorColumn=0
diff --git a/decisions/decisions.mlf b/decisions/decisions.mlf
index bf38353..aac6eef 100644
--- a/decisions/decisions.mlf
+++ b/decisions/decisions.mlf
@@ -70,6 +70,8 @@ Ben de Groot
 Ben de Groot
 2ff02d6910d797045af3659fb21c712f:gentoo-dev
 Fabian Groffen
+31d62c8526814c29a1d166a82ec889db:gentoo-dev
+Ben de Groot
 3675d8a397ee2b5b3088df42e3352b6f:gentoo-project
 Fabian Groffen
 36e31e8ccd47b158d171dbc7661e324e:gentoo-dev
@@ -214,6 +216,8 @@ Ulrich Mueller
 Tobias Scherbaum
 96edbf4973be715c664768618e1c87ed:gentoo-dev
 Mike Frysinger
+9b3f0e9ed1c97b033b563ea68b4d123e:gentoo-dev
+Donnie Berkholz
 9bc36a643a969e165c6f7cf228f2745c:gentoo-project
 Andreas K. Huettel
 9db8a88aed9d35a4cf629228564bf127:gentoo-project
@@ -264,10 +268,14 @@ b5b7aa83ddd64fdfa84284c1ceddcec6:gentoo-project
 Manuel Rüger
 b69cab4b36b6b3c6e68be82df09c2d36:gentoo-project
 Pacho Ramos
+b6f6ca201c154cdc17f1d582497c9995:gentoo-dev
+Donnie Berkholz
 b9460b9c8d578c3498c217c17b75afd4:gentoo-dev
 Ulrich Mueller
 ba125098c929ea31f34051dfb009d436:gentoo-council
 Donnie Berkholz
+ba16c7cd079ca0edc5150c56b14e671b:gentoo-dev
+Lukasz Damentko
 ba2cdfa0060c1a2b7583e19185564855:gentoo-dev
 Mike Frysinger
 bb3a3a0c1b0acb771a263294a67b722e:gentoo-dev
diff --git a/decisions/decisions.mls b/decisions/decisions.mls
index c52ee9e..bef9934 100644
--- a/decisions/decisions.mls
+++ b/decisions/decisions.mls
@@ -70,6 +70,8 @@ Re: [gentoo-project] Gentoo, GitHub, and the Social Contract
 Re: [gentoo-project] Council meeting 2015-03-10: call for agenda items
 2ff02d6910d797045af3659fb21c712f:gentoo-dev
 [gentoo-dev] ChangeLog generation - pros and cons (council discussion request)
+31d62c8526814c29a1d166a82ec889db:gentoo-dev
+Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo Council Reminder for August 7
 3675d8a397ee2b5b3088df42e3352b6f:gentoo-project
 [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev] ChangeLog generation - pros and cons (council discussion request)
 36e31e8ccd47b158d171dbc7661e324e:gentoo-dev
@@ -214,6 +216,8 @@ Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2015-12-13
 [gentoo-council] Agenda for September 14th meeting
 96edbf4973be715c664768618e1c87ed:gentoo-dev
 [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for March
+9b3f0e9ed1c97b033b563ea68b4d123e:gentoo-dev
+[gentoo-dev] Gentoo Council Reminder for August 7
 9bc36a643a969e165c6f7cf228f2745c:gentoo-project
 Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2014-04-08
 9db8a88aed9d35a4cf629228564bf127:gentoo-project
@@ -264,10 +268,14 @@ b5b7aa83ddd64fdfa84284c1ceddcec6:gentoo-project
 Re: [gentoo-project] Call for Agenda Items -- Council Meeting 2015-10-11
 b69cab4b36b6b3c6e68be82df09c2d36:gentoo-project
 Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2014-08-12
+b6f6ca201c154cdc17f1d582497c9995:gentoo-dev
+Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo Council Reminder for August 7
 b9460b9c8d578c3498c217c17b75afd4:gentoo-dev
 [gentoo-dev] RFD: News item format 2.0
 ba125098c929ea31f34051dfb009d436:gentoo-council
 [gentoo-council] CoC: informal enforcement
+ba16c7cd079ca0edc5150c56b14e671b:gentoo-dev
+Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo Council Reminder for August 7
 ba2cdfa0060c1a2b7583e19185564855:gentoo-dev
 [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for December
 bb3a3a0c1b0acb771a263294a67b722e:gentoo-dev
diff --git a/decisions/decisions.mlt b/decisions/decisions.mlt
index 37dcbf6..2d60f5d 100644
--- a/decisions/decisions.mlt
+++ b/decisions/decisions.mlt
@@ -70,6 +70,8 @@ Sun, 15 Feb 2015 02:57:53
 Mon, 02 Mar 2015 06:36:01
 2ff02d6910d797045af3659fb21c712f:gentoo-dev
 Thu, 02 Jun 2011 10:12:05
+31d62c8526814c29a1d166a82ec889db:gentoo-dev
+Tue, 05 Aug 2008 19:45:49
 3675d8a397ee2b5b3088df42e3352b6f:gentoo-project
 Mon, 01 Aug 2011 20:17:05
 36e31e8ccd47b158d171dbc7661e324e:gentoo-dev
@@ -214,6 +216,8 @@ Sun, 29 Nov 2015 16:16:50
 Sat, 12 Sep 2009 12:14:26
 96edbf4973be715c664768618e1c87ed:gentoo-dev
 Thu, 01 Mar 2007 10:31:20
+9b3f0e9ed1c97b033b563ea68b4d123e:gentoo-dev
+Fri, 01 Aug 2008 06:17:21
 9bc36a643a969e165c6f7cf228f2745c:gentoo-project
 Sun, 06 Apr 2014 12:35:37
 9db8a88aed9d35a4cf629228564bf127:gentoo-project
@@ -264,10 +268,14 @@ b5b7aa83ddd64fdfa84284c1ceddcec6:gentoo-project
 Wed, 30 Sep 2015 20:25:20
 b69cab4b36b6b3c6e68be82df09c2d36:gentoo-project
 Tue, 29 Jul 2014 12:06:28
+b6f6ca201c154cdc17f1d582497c9995:gentoo-dev
+Thu, 14 Aug 2008 10:01:27
 b9460b9c8d578c3498c217c17b75afd4:gentoo-dev
 Tue, 12 Jan 2016 18:13:51
 ba125098c929ea31f34051dfb009d436:gentoo-council
 Thu, 14 Feb 2008 10:13:41
+ba16c7cd079ca0edc5150c56b14e671b:gentoo-dev
+Fri, 01 Aug 2008 10:48:23
 ba2cdfa0060c1a2b7583e19185564855:gentoo-dev
 Sat, 01 Dec 2007 10:48:04
 bb3a3a0c1b0acb771a263294a67b722e:gentoo-dev
diff --git a/decisions/summary-20080814.tex b/decisions/summary-20080814.tex
index cd736f5..c63fbf7 100644
--- a/decisions/summary-20080814.tex
+++ b/decisions/summary-20080814.tex
@@ -1,6 +1,12 @@
 
 \summary{2008}{8}{14}
 
+Agenda call: \agoref{gentoo-dev}{9b3f0e9ed1c97b033b563ea68b4d123e}
+
+Agenda announcement: \agoref{gentoo-dev}{b6f6ca201c154cdc17f1d582497c9995}
+
+
+
 \agendaitem{Unplanned topics}
 \index{council!meeting!default proxies}
 
@@ -8,81 +14,65 @@ All the council members should nominate default proxies.
 
 
 \agendaitem{Reactions to dev banned from freenode}
-\index{freenode}
+\index{freenode!ban}
 
-rane:
-I'd like to ask Council to discuss possible reactions to our developer 
-being banned from Freenode without providing us with a reason. ... It 
-would be good if Council officially protested against that ban and 
-demanded a detailed explanation from Freenode staff.
+Reference: \agoref{gentoo-dev}{ba16c7cd079ca0edc5150c56b14e671b}
 
-\begin{verbatim}
-20:14 <   Halcy0n@> Do we have a history of how many times this has happened?  
-                    I believe another dev was klined after this was initially 
-                    brought up.
-20:14 <    musikc > ive spoken with the second dev actually
-20:16 <    musikc > the guy said he'd done what he was told to do and was still 
-                    waiting for some resolution
-20:17 <    musikc > i last spoke to him on the 10th
-\end{verbatim}
+\dev{rane}: ``I'd like to ask Council to discuss possible reactions to our 
+developer\footnote{According to the meeting log this was \dev{ricmm}.} being 
+banned from Freenode without providing us with a reason. [...] It would be good 
+if Council officially protested against that ban and demanded a detailed 
+explanation from Freenode staff.''
+
+It seems this happened twice; a second developer was klined after the issue was 
+initially brought up. \dev{musikc} spoke to the second one; he said he'd done 
+what he was told to do and was still waiting for some resolution. Several 
+people volunteered to talk to the developer in question to find out more 
+details. According to freenode staff tomaw, the issue was already resolved on 
+the day he (tomaw) was made aware of it.
 
 
 \agendaitem{Moving meetings to a location we control}
-\index{council!meeting!location}
-
-rane:
-I want Council to consider moving their meetings somewhere where third 
-parties can't control who in Gentoo can attend and who can't. Like our 
-own small and created just for this purpose IRC server.
-
-\begin{verbatim}
-20:26 <    Cardoe > We already have a public ML where predominately a lot of 
-                    the discussion takes place. Is there really any actual 
-                    supression occurring because of our use of Freenode?
-20:26  *    jokey is still not in favour of running an irc network
-20:27 < dberkholz@> Halcy0n: motivation is that when our devs get klined, it's 
-                    really hard for them to work with others on irc
-20:28 < dberkholz@> antarus: as i was saying earlier, freenode is a tool for 
-                    us. if that tool is getting in our way, it needs to change
-20:29 <    Cardoe > dberkholz: the question is the tool getting in our way or 
-                    hindering us. Or will devising our own tool hinder us more..
-20:30 <   Halcy0n@> Cardoe: I think us having to maintain it will be more of a 
-                    headache.
-20:30 <    Cardoe > Halcy0n: I'm in agreement with you on that.
-20:30 <dertobi123@> dito
-20:31 <     jokey@> indeed, let's discuss this there
-20:32 <    Cardoe > We have other things to use manpower on, like developing a 
-                    distribution.
-\end{verbatim}
-
-We currently have 2 freenode group contacts: fmccor and rane.
+\index{council!meeting!location}\index{freenode}
+
+Reference: \agoref{gentoo-dev}{ba16c7cd079ca0edc5150c56b14e671b}
+
+\dev{rane}: ``I want Council to consider moving their meetings somewhere where 
+third parties can't control who in Gentoo can attend and who cannot. Like our 
+own small and created just for this purpose IRC server.''
+
+We already have public mailing lists where a lot of the discussion takes place. 
+On one hand when freenode as a tool becomes impractical changes need to be 
+made. On the other hand there was conclusion that running an irc server would 
+be a serious headache and a waste of manpower. Thus no action was taken.
+
+We currently have 2 freenode group contacts: \dev{fmccor} and \dev{rane}.
 
 
 \agendaitem{Favor irc.gentoo.org alias in docs, etc}
 \index{irc.gentoo.org}\index{irc!channel!\#gentoo-java}
 
-rane:
-I want Council to consider creating and using irc.gentoo.org alias 
-instead of irc.freenode.net in our docs, news items and so on. The alias 
-would allow us to move out of the network more easily should we ever 
-decide to do so.
+Reference: \agoref{gentoo-dev}{ba16c7cd079ca0edc5150c56b14e671b}
+
+\dev{rane}: ``I want Council to consider creating and using irc.gentoo.org 
+alias instead of irc.freenode.net in our docs, news items and so on. The alias 
+would allow us to move out of the network more easily should we ever decide to 
+do so.''
 
-spb brought up a good point to think about.
-\begin{verbatim}
-20:35 <       spb > as people connect to irc.gentoo.org and assume that 
-                    generic-sounding channel names are all about gentoo
-20:35 <Betelgeuse@> spb: And people connect to freenode and assume gentoo-java 
-                    is about generic Java
-20:37 <     jokey@> I'd say at least one user every 3-4 days over in #gentoo-php
-20:37 <Betelgeuse@> jokey: Quite common on #gentoo-java too even with the 
-                    warnings all over the place.
-\end{verbatim}
+There was supprort for this idea. However, \dev{spb} brought up the point that 
+people connecting to irc.gentoo.org may assume that generic-sounding channel 
+names are all about gentoo. On the other hand it was argued that people 
+connecting to gentoo channels also ask generic questions as well. 
 
 
 \agendaitem{Banning fired developers}
-\index{enforced retirement}\index{irc!ban}
+\index{enforced retirement}\index{irc!ban}\index{irc!autodevoice}
+\index{project!devrel}
+
+Reference: \agoref{gentoo-dev}{31d62c8526814c29a1d166a82ec889db}
+
 
-yngwin:
+\dev{yngwin}:
 It really baffles me that some developers are forcefully retired for 
 anti-social behavior, but are not consequently banned from the places 
 where they display this behavior, such as our MLs and IRC channels. What 
@@ -90,76 +80,34 @@ good is it to retire developers, but allow them to continue to be
 disruptive? I would like the Council to decide for a change in our 
 policy on this point.
 
+It wasn't entirely clear if this question applied to a specific person. One
+could consider applying a ban for the same channel where the misbehaviour took 
+place, and allow other channels to be handled separately. \dev{spb} commented 
+that the three fired devs were actually banned from \#gentoo-dev for quite some 
+time.
 
-\begin{verbatim}
-20:44 <dleverton_ > As I said on the list (maybe too late for anyone to have 
-                    noticed), since yngwin said there were're actually any devs 
-                    that this applies to, is there anything to discuss?
-20:45 < dberkholz@> dleverton_: i must've interpreted his response differently 
-                    from you
-20:45 <    yngwin > i didnt say it like that, dleverton_
-20:45 < dberkholz@> what i understood was that we should ban them from the same 
-                    communication channel
-20:46 < dberkholz@> and allow other ones where they handled themselves 
-                    differently
-\end{verbatim}
-
-spb commented that the three fired devs were actually banned from
-\#gentoo-dev for quite some time.
-
-\begin{verbatim}
-20:51 <    musikc > from a devrel perspective, we do not give voice to every 
-                    dev who is retired so why should a forcibly retired dev be 
-                    any different?
-
-20:51 <     tomaw > Is the council interested in the autodevoice feature or is 
-                    this rambling off topic?
-20:51 <jmbsvicett > tomaw: As long as we stick to freenode, -1 is something 
-                    that interests us
-
-20:52 <    Cardoe+> Standardize a policy for what happens to voluntarily 
-                    retired devs and forcibly retired devs.
-20:53 <    Cardoe+> Can we actually tweak it?
-20:53 <    Cardoe+> the council direct devrel to come up with a proposed 
-                    solution/policy
-20:55 <    musikc > dberkholz, your call. happy to assist by doing work or by 
-                    just stating current process and devrel stance :)
-\end{verbatim}
+Discussion went off the tangents that giving voice to ex-developers is a right, 
+not a privilege, that Gentoo is in principle interested in the Freenode 
+autodevoice feature, and that a standardized policy on how to handle 
+voluntarily or forcibly retired developers might be useful. 
 
 
 \agendaitem{PMS as a draft standard of EAPI 0}
 \index{PMS}\index{EAPI!0}
 
-spb:
-It should be treated as a draft standard, and any deviations from it 
-found in the gentoo tree or package managers should have a bug filed 
-against either the deviator or PMS to resolve the differences.
-
-Alternatively, what (specific) changes are required to PMS before such a 
-statement can be made?
-
-The portage devs need to commit to it. How do conflicts get resolved?
-\begin{verbatim}
-20:56 < dberkholz@> we were talking about this earlier today in here
-<20:57 < dberkholz@> to quickly summarize, EAPI 0 and portage need to agree. 
-                    there are some conflicts of opinion, and the question is 
-                    how do they get resolved?
-20:58 < dberkholz@> 17:24 <   zmedico > dberkholz: mainly these two:  
-                    http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=222721  
-                    http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=232990
-20:58 < dberkholz@> 17:25 <   zmedico > In both cases I consider something to 
-                    be negligible that  the pms folks do not
-
-20:59 <    Cardoe+> potentially creating a PMS editor post.
-21:00 <    Cardoe+> Put it in the hands of a third party
-21:00 <    Cardoe+> and if there's a conflict, let the council decide
-
-21:01 <    musikc > dberkholz, conflict in that some feel PMS is biased?
-
-21:07 <       spb > differences will be resolved by filing a bug, so what needs 
-                    to be sorted is what sort of escalation/mediation mechanism 
-                    there is
-\end{verbatim}
+Reference: \agoref{gentoo-dev}{b8a13279805378353df627cbb10d72cc}
+
+\dev{spb}: (PMS) should be treated as a draft standard, and any deviations from 
+it found in the gentoo tree or package managers should have a bug filed against 
+either the deviator or PMS to resolve the differences.
+
+According to \dev{zmedico} at the moment the main conflicts of opinion are 
+\bug{222721} and \bug{232990}. \dev{ciaranm} stated that Portage was in the 
+wrong since it broke existing stuff in the tree, \dev{zmedico} disagreed. A 
+discussion ensued.
+
+How shall conflicts get resolved here? The idea of creating a PMS editor 
+position for escalation/mediation was discussed. 
 
 We ran past the 1-hour mark, so this is pushed back to the list. It will 
 be on the next agenda in 2 weeks if it's not resolved by then.